Conoravirus ...

[Ajax]

Well, that's certainly a fascinating study.

I am not rich. In fact, most of my life has been spent at an income level far, far beneath where I live now. I have only recently (within the last 5 years) achieved a level of income that I NEVER thought I would see in my life. My wife is a low-paid, state employee who has not seen a raise in 9 years. This is her highest wage, currently. Frankly, we do not expect her income to ever rise unless she steps up to a senior management position as a top-tier state park manager (which she is certainly qualified for).

I realize that it's anecdotal and not a formal study, but my wife and my experience is that "sick leave" is widely mis-used. I will agree that many people use it to care for sick family and I see nothing wrong with that. My views about people who work in service, retail and similar industries comes from working with them, not from looking down at them from a corner office window.

Most of the friends and acquaintences that I left behind in these industries plowed their disposable income into alcohol, tattoos (I am flabbergasted how expensive tattoos are!), lottery tickets, cigarettes and expensive consumer electronics. Some of them really, really liked their weed. Then, they had kids. I heard a lot of bitching about how unfair life was.

Some of my acquaintences were like me, more "forward looking." We held onto our money, stayed clear of drugs, chose one reasonable hobby as an outlet, started 401k's even when we earned very little money
and we studied. Those of us that did this, escaped. Yeah, I joined the Navy. I intentionally enlisted in the Submarine Advanced Electronics Field. I knew this would give me a solid foundation upon which to build, rather than artillery or other combat specific specialties. I also considered combat engineering, medical and other occupations that cross over well to lucrative, civilian employment.

Hell, I don't even have a degree. I earned certifications and skills that are in demand. I'm also clean and can pass a urinalysis all day long. I'm trustworthy and can pass any kind of polygraph you can throw at me.
If I hadn't been so lazy, I could be even wealthier and much higher up the corporate ladder than I am now. I know who is to blame for my position in life- ME. Fortunately, I am happy with my position in life.

Yes, some people are unfairly saddled with disabled/ill family, bad parents &c. but a lot more of it is simply making bad choices.

My cousin is a fucking bum. He's the worst of the lot because he has no excuse. Raised by loving parents in a stable marriage, with grandparents that doted on him and lavishly gifted him at every holiday. This guy experienced NO trauma in his life. Refused college, erratic, unstable employment his entire life. Pissed away every stray cent on motorcycles, tattoos, booze, cigarettes and other shit. Absolutely refuses to be held accountable for his life choices, he's got a sob story and an excuse for every failure. He barely has 2 coins to rub together. He could have had it all, the lazy fuck. Now, he's poor and grouchy about it and I have ZERO sympathy for him. He's passive-aggressive with me because he sees what I have, and he's angry about it. He thinks I was just lucky and that it all fell into my lap.

In swampy, shit-hole SW Florida, I grew up with a ton of these guys and gals. They're all going nowhere fast and they're thrilled to death about it.

[BeauV]

Ajax, without a doubt N. California (where all these studies came from) has been a place that selects for a certain type of person. The studies we ran are suffering from a great deal of selection bias. I spent 5 summers in Okeechobee FL, and understand precisely the sort of person you're talking about. None of those folks would pack up and move to N. Calif. in search of an opportunity for a great job.

That said, from everything I've read about areas like Ohio, Penn, Wisconsin, etc... the vast majority of low-wage folks are working multiple jobs to make ends meet. This is also true of the central valley of CA and big chunks of S. Calif.

What I get ticked off about is when folks generalize about the mythical "Welfare Queen" and such, when their sole source for the existence of folks like this are some highly biased politically based fantasy reports. I'll switch off my politics now.

[SemiSalt]

Folks seem to have opinions about poor working people that aren't based on data but upon opinion pieces they've read.

How great is the inclination to feel that life is harder for ourselves than for others that rich people think it's easy to be poor!

[LarryHoward]

Beau,

I don't see anyone her going on about Welfare Queens. If they exist, then they are't too worried about being off work for 3-4 weeks.

My concern is that we provide sick leave that is not required by the state government and allow employees to bank up to 320 hours. My average blue collar employee has been here for 4 years and only one has experienced any significant health issues. We also provide an average number of paid vacation days and holidays. When Coronavirus shows up here, there is a good chance that we may have to shut down for a few weeks. As a company, we had a pretty poor 2019 (break even) that lead to a GM being walked out the door. The rest of us did OK but couldn't make up for his division's losses. Sole Proprietor owner is 84 years old and I suspect at the board meeting next Tuesday, we'll not walk out with an "extended sick leave" plan and those who used their sick leave will be caught with no sick leave and no ability to work. We are a small business and these guys (and gals) are pretty much family but we are not in a position to eat a month of direct charging indirect. I'm worried about them.

[BeauV]

Larry, we have exactly the same problem with our Yacht Club employees. Many of them are dear friends. Hell, the oldest bartender not only served me my first drink at the bar, but did so for my son, and may last long enough to do so for my grandson. That said, our Club can't afford to pay these folks forever if the virus strikes hard. We're all walking a thin line between what we can afford and what we'd like to do.

In the commercial companies, where I'm on the board, we are rapidly deploying work-at-home strategies. Those, obviously, are a lot easier for software folks, remote support teams, etc... As a result, we're going to see quite a difference in the impact of the virus on companies like Microsoft vs companies like Uber where their drivers either sit in a car with random people or don't work.

[Jamie]

I just moved to unlimited paid leave so now I don't have to accrue for unused paid leave. Everything but the lab work can be done from home.

[BeauV]

I just moved to unlimited paid leave so now I don't have to accrue for unused paid leave. Everything but the lab work can be done from home.

Jamie, in one company we moved to unlimited vacation/sick-leave/whatever. The "rule" was "Just work it out with your boss." With that plan almost no one took vacations. It backfired because after a few years people were SERIOUSLY burned out.

I think all of these differences in experiences can be laid at the feet of Serious Selection Bias.

[Steele]

I agree how these benefits play out depends on the industry. You would think in healthcare we would have less trouble with sick leave. We have a PTO policy and regularly have employees burn through all their time on frivolous issues, then have none available if they get sick, or have pre-paid a vacation, then realize they don't have enough time in the bank. This leads to requests for time off without pay, which in our industry is a bad policy since we run lean and need people in clinic each day all day and back filling with temps or overtime gets gets very expensive.
Absenteeism is so bad after weekends and holidays that our organization now offers drawings and prizes for employees who show up on Monday, I am not making this up.

[kimbottles]

Hey! Not bad for a guy with a Stigmata

[Tigger]

The real winner of Super Tuesday. Best thing I've seen today! And yesterday, and the day before ...

[JoeP]

Looking good Kim!

[kimbottles]

I actually voted for Amy, but I am OK with either Joe or Mike, not too fond of the angry guy.
Kamela was my first choice but she is long gone.
I know people who have worked for Joe and they all love him.

[BeauV]

Kim, you look pretty freaking cheerful!

We are so glad!!

[Ajax]

You're a tough old git. I sure as hell didn't smile like that after my surgery.

[kimbottles]

You're a tough old git. I sure as hell didn't smile like that after my surgery.

I am surrounded by rather pretty gals (no worries, Susan is here with me) but the view is quite nice.

AND now I am the recipient of The Stigmata of Robert the Bruce. I wear it proudly.

There has been discussion among the pretty gals that women are appalled by mastectomy’s and here is this nutty old fruit cake bragging about his.

[LarryHoward]

Good to see you all bright and cheery! When do you get to go home? Lots of sick people in the hospital.

I talked with my oncologist yesterday (Clean CT and graduated to testing every 6 months instead of 4 for the next 3 years, by the way). He is pretty matter of fact on Corona Virus. They are a designated treatment center and have airflow controlled isolation rooms available and protocols in place. Seeing increased "I have a cough and sniffle" ER arrivals so they are already being impacted. The writers who argue that we should have been testing every one who sneezes just have no idea of the logistics of such a policy. On a normal DC weekend (They are a major trauma, burn and cardiac center) admission and getting a bed from the ER is triaged. It can take 24-48 hours for a average stable patient to get a bed. They have already started releasing recovering or stable patients somewhat earlier to clinic or home care and will increase that when CoronaVirus starts sucking up beds.

As to the Chemo Wing? He shrugged his shoulders and basically said that immune compromised chemo patients are already vulnerable to colds, flu, etc and he sees this as just another respiratory risk. As chemo ward beds get allocated to non chemo patients, they will continue providing them only to wound/trauma patients and strictly enforce the "no infectious patients in the ward" policy.

If you have seen the news from Italy, I predict we'll see FEMA and DOD setting up field isolation centers as soon as an emergency declaration comes. Hopefully, the doctors get to make that decision and not the politicians. Any discussion can go over to the political side....


Steele. Nurses at WHC yesterday expressed concern that they are on the front lines and will end up sick and isolated/unable to work. They are not really worried about the mortality side. Although they have sick leave, once it runs out, they will be on LWOP.

[kimbottles]

Going home today after this gal Amy (my lovely surgeon) kicks me out.

[Slick470]

Glad the surgery went well Kim. Now get home and heal up!

[TheOffice]

Kim, looking good!

Even if you have negative pressure isolation rooms you need to get the patient from the ER to the room, hopefully with a breather.

Where Sue works the labor and delivery ward doesn't have a negative pressure room, just a HEPA filter. Want to guess how well that will work?

Joel

[Ajax]

You're a tough old git. I sure as hell didn't smile like that after my surgery.

I am surrounded by rather pretty gals (no worries, Susan is here with me) but the view is quite nice.

AND now I am the recipient of The Stigmata of Robert the Bruce. I wear it proudly.

There has been discussion among the pretty gals that women are appalled by mastectomy’s and here is this nutty old fruit cake bragging about his.

Damn, she's lovely. That would perk me up, too. You'll get a higher quality of rest at home and good rest is key to recovery. I'm sorry but you'll have to leave all the young hotties and go sleep in your own bed.

[Anomaly]

Do you get to keep the cool hat?

[Jamie]

Darn it, I never get surgeons like that.

Glad to see you out the other side, humor intact.

[kimbottles]

The entire staff here were very nice supportive competent attractive ladies. No complaints.
I lost the hat somewhere in surgery while still out of it.
I had to go to cellular as this place thinks Scantlings is an adult website!

[LarryHoward]

I had to go to cellular as this place thinks Scantlings is an adult website!

Well, it must have an age filter.....

[Steele]

kim, it's great you are doing so well, and I am sure you charmed the hell out of the hospital staff in typical Bottles fashion.

Larry, we received an email from our parent company yesterday that any clinic employees will continue to be compensated if they are out of work because of illness or quarantine. This not only protects us financialy, but redcues to incentive for people to come to work sick. The bigger issue may be how we staff in the first place if one of us tests positive, which will happen. We work in very close quarters, basicly a cubical farm, so most of the dept. would then need to be tested or sent home.

China has started testing people in their cars. At first this seemed to be a bit over the top, but now is starting to be a pretty good idea once we have test kits. Despite Pence's statement about millions being available access is still very limited, even here at the current center of the epidemic in the US.

[kimbottles]

Going home. Sitting in ferry line. Susan is driving. Only using the over the counter pain meds. The nasty stuff is in reserve, hoping not to need it. That whole experience wasn’t so bad. Now waiting for lab test to plan further treatment.

[LarryHoward]

kim, it's great you are doing so well, and I am sure you charmed the hell out of the hospital staff in typical Bottles fashion.

Larry, we received an email from our parent company yesterday that any clinic employees will continue to be compensated if they are out of work because of illness or quarantine. This not only protects us financialy, but redcues to incentive for people to come to work sick. The bigger issue may be how we staff in the first place if one of us tests positive, which will happen. We work in very close quarters, basicly a cubical farm, so most of the dept. would then need to be tested or sent home.

China has started testing people in their cars. At first this seemed to be a bit over the top, but now is starting to be a pretty good idea once we have test kits. Despite Pence's statement about millions being available access is still very limited, even here at the current center of the epidemic in the US.

Yep. I have a Board meeting Tuesday and will be seeing if we can do anything for folks. I don;t have high confidence but you gotta ask....

I saw a report on the in car testing. Thought it was SK. Seems like a good idea. Quick, limits exposure to other people. Able to process a large number of patients quickly. Figuring out how to pay for testing is going to be an issue. Ideally, we'll declare it an emergency and provide testing for free. Well, not free but federally provided. Can you imagine drive through testing with a stop at Patient Records to run insurance paperwork and pay Co-Pays first?

[BeauV]

Kim, looking good!

Even if you have negative pressure isolation rooms you need to get the patient from the ER to the room, hopefully with a breather.

Where Sue works the labor and delivery ward doesn't have a negative pressure room, just a HEPA filter. Want to guess how well that will work?

Joel

Our local provider, Sutter Heath, has surgery and delivery in its own building. They are about 3/4 of a mile away from the ER and the various other bits of the hospital. The folks in surgery and delivery are instructed to NOT eat at the cafeteria in the main hospital building, in addition to the normal procedures of hand-sanitizer/washing/etc..... It's the most rational thing I've seen. I asked a delivery nurse who sails with us what they'll do if a nurse or doctor comes down with the bug. She's been told that they are to stay clear of sick folks and attempt to minimize contact. EG: She didn't go up to the Yacht Club after sailing. Neither did I.

[kdh]

Glad to know you're doing well, Kim. Godspeed.

[Chris Chesley]

Went in for an endoscopy and biopsy this morning so I got chaffeured home by the Admiral just like you did today, Kim. They asked a few questions about foreign travel in the last 30 days, one nurse tried to shake my hand, another figured a fist bump was okay, the Dr, however, took a pass on all contact....
They're also trying to get used to wearing some sort of eye protection as well... If you take this whole thing seriously, my guess is that it should be a whole lot more detailed in practices, disposal and cleaning. They aren't there yet...