New Family Hauler Needed

[Chris Chesley]

yes, I've noticed that you have to read the fine print. Sometimes its some low APR OR $3000 cash back. Sarah is good at drilling down on the financials.

Yeah, well, BUYING a new car is a whole new can of worms for discussion. I actually think a colonoscopy is FAR more preferable than buying a car. The best way I've found to minimize, (not eliminate) the BS is to buy through the Costco program. But they will still go through the 'sit with the manager and decline the extended warrantee' BS....

[BeauV]

yes, I've noticed that you have to read the fine print. Sometimes its some low APR OR $3000 cash back. Sarah is good at drilling down on the financials.

Yeah, well, BUYING a new car is a whole new can of worms for discussion. I actually think a colonoscopy is FAR more preferable than buying a car. The best way I've found to minimize, (not eliminate) the BS is to buy through the Costco program. But they will still go through the 'sit with the manager and decline the extended warrantee' BS....

I think the complete elimination of this entire process is one of the things people won't appreciate about Tesla until they've done it.

You select your options on their iPad which displays the model and feature in real-time, the price appears for each thing you add along with a running total, they tell you if it's in stock at that location or not (it almost never is), and you drive it home/they deliver it to your home/you pick it up later. No one is authorized to haggle. There is no finance manager. If you don't want the car they'll help you figure out which features you may not be able to afford or guide you to a used car or demonstrater. That's it.

We did go to a storefront in a mall and they let us drive around in a demonstrator. If you don't' like the car, you have 30 days to return it, no questions asked.

[TheOffice]

Years ago we bought 2 american cars, a Sable Wagon and a Chrysler minivan. In both cases I bought the extended warranties, and they paid off big-time. Got rid of the van just before the warranty ran out. Last time I bought US vehicles.

Joel

[Slick470]

Beau, I'd love a Tesla for my DD, but it just isn't in the money cards right now. In another year when our youngest is out of daycare and we're where we want to be with pre-funding the kid's college 529 accounts we'll have a some additional flexibility.

The EV model I think would be perfect for us and really other than the longer trips to explore the country and visit family, we really don't put many miles on our vehicles in a year. I work 3 miles from home and Sarah goes in to her office in DC one day a week. We both currently have 2007 cars with between 110 and 120k on them and my old pickup is a 2002 with about 80k on it.

As far as buying, we're looking into the Costco program as well as the USAA program to see what the best deal we can get is. We also have a good friend with a credit union who can help point us in the right direction. We have excellent credit so that is in our favor. The first step really is figuring out what we want to buy.

The point made about leasing vs buying is an interesting one given all the electronics and sensors in these newer vehicles. Our MO has been to buy and hold as long as we can and really have no interest in having the latest and greatest, well really anything. I like working on cars to a point, but have found that newer cars are getting increasingly harder for an owner to do anything significant. Maybe moving into buying but offloading once they get to the end of the warranties is a good model moving forward.

[Jamie]

Use a buying serivce. If you have access, USAA has a good one. I've used it twice now. I've heard Edmunds is decent. It's nice to have the financing and price set for the exact VIN you want set before you show up to the stealership. Of course the sales reps will try to re-direct in the less reputable shops, but you can ignore them.

[Ajax]

I think I'm simply too biased to contribute much to this discussion.

- I'll never own a GM or Mopar product again
- I've been very pleased with Subaru for the past 7-8 years. I've directed 3 co-workers to Subarus and they rave about them. My daughter is about to trade in her Fiat 500 Abarth on a Crosstrek

That being said, I know nothing of the Ascent and won't vouch for it. It's too big for my needs so I haven't even looked at it.

[BeauV]

Use a buying serivce. If you have access, USAA has a good one. I've used it twice now. I've heard Edmunds is decent. It's nice to have the financing and price set for the exact VIN you want set before you show up to the stealership. Of course the sales reps will try to re-direct in the less reputable shops, but you can ignore them.

I had no idea USAA did that, we're members. I'll keep it in mind. Thanks!

[Slick470]

we're USAA members too, but haven't used that service before. Nice to know it is worthwhile.

[Jamie]

They'll give you 25 or 50 points on your car loan if you use the service and they don't seem to mind when you pay it off early.

[LarryHoward]

I used USAA's service back in 2005 and then asked my local dealer price match. He wasn't happy to do it but relented when I told him it was a take it or leave it opportunity. I wasn't going to haggle on price.

On the "lease/buy" discussion, I'm still in the "buy a CPO and drive it until it;s a charity donor" camp. Starting to think about a replacement for the 2006 Sienna AWD (maybe even an electric) but then used it heavily as a hauler this weekend. With its laughable residual value, it's not hurting to keep it in the garage for bad weather/hauling needs and Lynne drives her S2000 when the weather is nice. We'll look at a Model Y when it comes out. Would love a Taycan but it's too rich for my budget.

[Tim Ford]

Not trying to sound like a total pimp for a brand, but I'd take a look at Mazda:

1) not as expensive as Toy Otas
2) just about the same frequency of repair as Toy Otas
3) slightly cheaper cost of repair then Toy Ota.
4) MUCH higher company investment in owner/brand loyalty that Toy Otes
5) depending on model, better mileage than the Toys
6) depending on model, better road feel, handling and traction than ALL other rice-burners and kraut cars I've owned
7) see #6 - transfer relevant comments to: safety

I've owned a number of cars from different countries of origin, Japan, Sweden, Germany, Germany, Germany, and Japan. (and USA) I can say hands down the Mazda is the best car I've ever owned. Performance, dependability, cost, mileage etc.

YMMV

[Chris Chesley]

Not trying to sound like a total pimp for a brand, but I'd take a look at Mazda:

1) not as expensive as Toy Otas
2) just about the same frequency of repair as Toy Otas
3) slightly cheaper cost of repair then Toy Ota.
4) MUCH higher company investment in owner/brand loyalty that Toy Otes
5) depending on model, better mileage than the Toys
6) depending on model, better road feel, handling and traction than ALL other rice-burners and kraut cars I've owned
7) see #6 - transfer relevant comments to: safety

I've owned a number of cars from different countries of origin, Japan, Sweden, Germany, Germany, Germany, and Japan. (and USA) I can say hands down the Mazda is the best car I've ever owned. Performance, dependability, cost, mileage etc.

YMMV

I wanted a Mazda back when I got my first Highlander. They ARE good, greater driving cars, but to get the size I wanted, I lost the mileage race against the Highlander. The smaller ones were just to cramped for me and ultimately, gas pump requirements beat out driving pleasure requirements. Once you’re ‘of an age’ I guess, I don’t give a crap anymore about cornering and fast (er) acceleration. I need to be able to sit upright, not slouched down, and easy in/out. Is it an ‘age’ thing? Who knows....?

[Audrey]

...Once you’re ‘of an age’ I guess, I don’t give a crap anymore about cornering and fast (er) acceleration...

This sounds utterly terrible. Is it age dependent? I hope not, b/c there's only one way to avoid it then.

[Slick470]

Sarah saw one of the comparable Mazda CX9s at the neighborhood rec center. She thinks it's ugly. That probably won't outweigh the benefits.

[Ajax]

...Once you’re ‘of an age’ I guess, I don’t give a crap anymore about cornering and fast (er) acceleration...

This sounds utterly terrible. Is it age dependent? I hope not, b/c there's only one way to avoid it then.

It's not age dependent. It occurs when you re-prioritize life.

I simply don't spend enough time behind the wheel of any vehicle to give a shit about anything other than durability and fuel economy. Add to this that the driving environment in the DC/Baltimore ghettoplex is abhorrent. High traffic density makes "performance" totally irrelevant. What's the point of 0-60 when you're stuck sniffing the tailpipe of the car in front of you? What concern is cornering when your commute is a straight line on 214 and another straight line on US50?

Today, I measure performance in tenths of a knot and degrees of point.

[Chris Chesley]

...Once you’re ‘of an age’ I guess, I don’t give a crap anymore about cornering and fast (er) acceleration...

This sounds utterly terrible. Is it age dependent? I hope not, b/c there's only one way to avoid it then.

It's not age dependent. It occurs when you re-prioritize life.

I simply don't spend enough time behind the wheel of any vehicle to give a shit about anything other than durability and fuel economy. Add to this that the driving environment in the DC/Baltimore ghettoplex is abhorrent. High traffic density makes "performance" totally irrelevant. What's the point of 0-60 when you're stuck sniffing the tailpipe of the car in front of you? What concern is cornering when your commute is a straight line on 214 and another straight line on US50?

Today, I measure performance in tenths of a knot and degrees of point.

Amen, Brothuh! It just really doesn't matter (not that the marketers want to hear such things...) Besides, most anything is better than the big 'boats' we drove in the 60's-70's. It's all relative.

[LarryHoward]

I guess I'm still an immature brat. We have 3 cars. A minivan hauler, an S2000 3 season play car for Lynne and my Macan S. I also have access to my son's Civic Si and 911S as he leaves one or the other at my house while he lives 7-8 miles away. We are far enough from DC and my commute is 5-8 minutes and 2 light cycles is horrible traffic. I enjoy spirited acceleration and good handling. I also put Classic Vinyl on the radio and crank it up so I guess I'm still am a kid at 65.

[Rob McAlpine]

I love sports cars, and just wish I wanted one. With the distances we drive and oilfield traffic, reliability and crash safety are high on our list. Since all of our cars may get used for skiing, AWD is required. My Acura RL is fine for me, my wife gets MDX's, the kids get her hand me downs.

Some 12 years ago I gave my Mom, Lola, her choice of a Lexus RX or Toyota Highlander and keep the difference in cost. Being a Yankee, she took the Highlander and $10k. She told me the the other day that she wouldn't give that car up for anything. It always starts, parks easily and has analog controls she can understand.

[Slick470]

I guess I'm still an immature brat. We have 3 cars. A minivan hauler, an S2000 3 season play car for Lynne and my Macan S. I also have access to my son's Civic Si and 911S as he leaves one or the other at my house while he lives 7-8 miles away. We are far enough from DC and my commute is 5-8 minutes and 2 light cycles is horrible traffic. I enjoy spirited acceleration and good handling. I also put Classic Vinyl on the radio and crank it up so I guess I'm still am a kid at 65.

You were also a fighter pilot, excuse me, aviator... I think you have performance in your blood, or JP-5.

I like performance and good handling. I like acceleration. When we do these family road trips, comfort is also a pretty big deal. I'd love a sports car for driving and I'd love a Jeep Wrangler or Colorado ZR2 for playing, but right now I need practical. When the kids go off to college I'll get a less sensible car.

[Ajax]

I guess I'm still an immature brat. We have 3 cars. A minivan hauler, an S2000 3 season play car for Lynne and my Macan S. I also have access to my son's Civic Si and 911S as he leaves one or the other at my house while he lives 7-8 miles away. We are far enough from DC and my commute is 5-8 minutes and 2 light cycles is horrible traffic. I enjoy spirited acceleration and good handling. I also put Classic Vinyl on the radio and crank it up so I guess I'm still am a kid at 65.

You also live far enough out of the way that it's a pretty short trip to go somewhere where you can stretch a sports car's legs.

I've resorted to buying a 26,000 lb. truck to keep all of these "asphalt cowboys" at arm's length.

[Jamie]

Ah, I still miss my turboed Legacy wagon. 350lb of torque (limited) effectively all the way to the redline in any gear. 100-200kmh in less than 10 sec with a roof-rack on. That car could haul all my windsurfers, kids and luggage and embarrass a lot of other cars at the same time. It had forged internals, a 50/50 water meth injection triggered by manifold pressure as well as an exhaust bypass for a 76mm straight leg that opened at 11psi boost. The waste gate was internally plumbed so no fast and furious sound effects. Quiet, smooth cruising at warp speed. It was a slushbox so anyone could drive it to Costco. I had a very discrete LED AFR and boost gauge built into the air vent and a small LED to tell me when the meth was running and water/meth tank was full. With the straight leg exhaust closed - very quiet - except for a bit of intake noise as it got on boost. A poor man's E63 AMG. I think during my ownership I went through close to 50-60 gallons of methanol in about 40,000km- so that was a lot of spraying time over 11psi. The current owner is still enjoying it as a DD, so we built it right. My STG2 STi is nice, but it's not as nice as that.

[LarryHoward]

Ah, I still miss my turboed Legacy wagon. 350lb of torque (limited) effectively all the way to the redline in any gear. 100-200kmh in less than 10 sec with a roof-rack on. That car could haul all my windsurfers, kids and luggage and embarrass a lot of other cars at the same time. It had forged internals, a 50/50 water meth injection triggered by manifold pressure as well as an exhaust bypass for a 76mm straight leg that opened at 11psi boost. The waste gate was internally plumbed so no fast and furious sound effects. Quiet, smooth cruising at warp speed. It was a slushbox so anyone could drive it to Costco. I had a very discrete LED AFR and boost gauge built into the air vent and a small LED to tell me when the meth was running and water/meth tank was full. With the straight leg exhaust closed - very quiet - except for a bit of intake noise as it got on boost. A poor man's E63 AMG. I think during my ownership I went through close to 50-60 gallons of methanol in about 40,000km- so that was a lot of spraying time over 11psi. The current owner is still enjoying it as a DD, so we built it right. My STG2 STi is nice, but it's not as nice as that.

That wagon had to be hard to leave behind.

[Jamie]

Ah, I still miss my turboed Legacy wagon. 350lb of torque (limited) effectively all the way to the redline in any gear. 100-200kmh in less than 10 sec with a roof-rack on. That car could haul all my windsurfers, kids and luggage and embarrass a lot of other cars at the same time. It had forged internals, a 50/50 water meth injection triggered by manifold pressure as well as an exhaust bypass for a 76mm straight leg that opened at 11psi boost. The waste gate was internally plumbed so no fast and furious sound effects. Quiet, smooth cruising at warp speed. It was a slushbox so anyone could drive it to Costco. I had a very discrete LED AFR and boost gauge built into the air vent and a small LED to tell me when the meth was running and water/meth tank was full. With the straight leg exhaust closed - very quiet - except for a bit of intake noise as it got on boost. A poor man's E63 AMG. I think during my ownership I went through close to 50-60 gallons of methanol in about 40,000km- so that was a lot of spraying time over 11psi. The current owner is still enjoying it as a DD, so we built it right. My STG2 STi is nice, but it's not as nice as that.

That wagon had to be hard to leave behind.

Yes it was. A lot of heart went into it. Expat living means you're always leaving nice stuff behind. I'm glad I've left that lifestyle behind, too.

[Chris Chesley]

I guess I'm still an immature brat. We have 3 cars. A minivan hauler, an S2000 3 season play car for Lynne and my Macan S. I also have access to my son's Civic Si and 911S as he leaves one or the other at my house while he lives 7-8 miles away. We are far enough from DC and my commute is 5-8 minutes and 2 light cycles is horrible traffic. I enjoy spirited acceleration and good handling. I also put Classic Vinyl on the radio and crank it up so I guess I'm still am a kid at 65.

Larry, here’s my dirty little secret... I want a little ‘sport’ type monohull to day sail and weekend overnight aboard with the grandkid. Ultimate performance is not my goal, but simplicity, aesthetics and easy maneuverability (like tacking up a narrow channel) are highly desirable. I had been sorta figuring on going that route when (if) I sold my current ride. However, the Admiral is highly opposed and we’ve been hiring folks to do her job(s) so she now has more availability—Heck, we went out yesterday for a 4-5 day local cruise waaay before the ‘weekend’. But, now I want that ‘sportcar’ Boat ‘in addition’ instead of ‘in lieu’ of the ‘cruiser’.

Part of my ‘problem’ is I don’t like IC engines....

[SemiSalt]

Part of my ‘problem’ is I don’t like IC engines....

But naphtha engines are so bulky.....

More seriously, even if electric isn't good enough, it's almost good enough. That's a lot better than it was 20 years ago.

[Chris Chesley]

Part of my ‘problem’ is I don’t like IC engines....

But naphtha engines are so bulky.....

More seriously, even if electric isn't good enough, it's almost good enough. That's a lot better than it was 20 years ago.

Ha! There was a time when I was quite intrigued by those naphtha launches. Not having thousands of rackety little explosions every minute sounds good to me. But, of course, heating flammable liquids while trying not to get them 'too' hot had its limitations...

[Tim Ford]

I still care deeply about cornering, road feel and the ability to merge on to an interstate at speed (in Maryland, the right lane has become the "fast" lane for some unfathomable reason).

I still put a lot of miles on a vehicle and in conditions that are challenging. I want to "feel" the road and know my tyres are gripping.

But one thing: I'll never buy a car that doesn't have a rear-view backup camera. Goddam things are the best invention EVER.

[Jamie]

I still care deeply about cornering, road feel and the ability to merge on to an interstate at speed (in Maryland, the right lane has become the "fast" lane for some unfathomable reason).

I still put a lot of miles on a vehicle and in conditions that are challenging. I want to "feel" the road and know my tyres are gripping.

But one thing: I'll never buy a car that doesn't have a rear-view backup camera. Goddam things are the best invention EVER.

Don’t worry. These are legally mandated.

[Ajax]

I still care deeply about cornering, road feel and the ability to merge on to an interstate at speed (in Maryland, the right lane has become the "fast" lane for some unfathomable reason).

I still put a lot of miles on a vehicle and in conditions that are challenging. I want to "feel" the road and know my tyres are gripping.

But one thing: I'll never buy a car that doesn't have a rear-view backup camera. Goddam things are the best invention EVER.

Don't get me wrong, performance to safely operate in DC traffic is necessary. Some 4-cylinder econo-boxes are just too anemic for that. For a 4-cylinder, my Outback is pretty peppy and being more of a wagon vs. an SUV, it maneuvers and corners pretty well. It does much better than just getting out of its own way.

I think the ultimate evolution of the type of vehicle I want, will be Tesla's pickup truck. I'll finally be able to buy a clean, efficient, open-backed hauler that I can also drive to work every day. It will be able to pull my camper over to the Eastern Shore or southern Maryland on a single charge. If I treat it right, it'll last at least 250,000 miles.

[Slick470]

Well, took today off and went car looking around and test driving. Wasn't really planning on buying anything today, but then this happened...

20191004_182820.jpg

2020 Subaru Ascent Limited. It's pretty fancy.