Scantlings

Ok... this is a long shot for many, many reasons, but I am doing my due diligence. An old friend has asked me to look into relocating to Portland to head up a department in an office that he runs. Apparently, I'm at that point in my career where I have hit an experience threshold and I'm starting to get a number of calls like this, although most are local.

Back to Portland. I have been to Portland once, for a long weekend and then down to the Corvallis area for my cousin's wedding. While in town, we did some basic sight seeing, went to Voodoo donuts and a open air market. Climbed Mt. Hood, did some camping, and hit some micro brews. On the way to the wedding, we drove out to the coast and came down that way. Beautiful drive, but not "shorter" as we were told and we were late to the wedding. Amazingly this didn't matter as the best man was also late and they hadn't started yet.

I know that there are a few here that are in the area, so, what can you tell me about living there, sailing there, housing prices, schools (K-12), marinas, slip fees, pros, cons, etc. I'm looking for an unbiased (to me moving there) insider's perspective. I'll discuss this with my friend, but he's biased, he wants me to come work for him.

Like I said, this is a major long shot. We've been in the DC area for almost 13 years and have some serious roots here, friends, mortgage, ongoing home renovation, current jobs, etc. So moving completely across the country is a huge deal and I'm not taking the decision lightly. For those on this board that do know me personally or through other social media, please keep this here and certainly not to Facebook or the like.

PM Born2Sail, he lives in Portland.

You may also want to PM Gerry Hunter (Oregon Anarchist on SA, GerryH here). He lives south of Portland in McMinnville but probably has a good handle on the sailing scene.

Andy

Company that I worked for has a factory in Tualatin just South of Portland.
1) Housing can be a great win as it's less expensive. The trap is that going back to an area with expensive real estate can be a challenge.
2) The area is very family friendly.
3) There is a somewhat entitled perspective in the work force. Time to go home and all that. Good for the former and a bit of a problem for management. But all in all - a fair days work for a fair days pay and all that.
4) Weather is a bit damp, but the grass is very green.
5) Sailing, no practical experience, but the folks seem to enjoy the river.
6) You vote by mail.
7) All gas is pumped by attendants.
8) There is Kaiser Medical in the area if you appreciate their business/health model.
9) The ice storms kind of shut down the whole area, but then you would be a bit experienced with the cold.
10) You might be enticed into becoming a Ducks fan. Proceed at your own risk.

Thanks for the suggestions on who to ask, and the list is very helpful.

I'm not sure if we'd move back to a more expensive area after moving there, but that is something to think about as you never know. I also didn't realize that it is a gas station attendant state. For some reason that really annoys me.

Little chance I'd end up a Ducks fan. The local schools and their rabid fans have not made me one of their fans. I'm a K-State Wildcat and proud of it.

The gas attendant thing is wierd. If you run a debit card you need to get out of the car anyway to enter the pin number.

Portland is a nice city - seems sympathetic rather than the usual hostility to float homes. Big art community. Check the attached posters - that guy was the mayor.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=%22expos ... 20&bih=940

Oregon is a pretty cool state overall but is also kind of an odd state. Its "personality" is sort of 1/2 hippy, 1/2 right wing Libertarian.

The coast is incredible - one of the most wild and beautiful places on earth.

I've briefly visited Portland and found it to be, as Jon says, a nice city. Walking friendly and very QOL focused. Certainly nothing like Northern VA and DC. A close friend almost took an early retirement (SES in the government) to move there because of the "vibe".

I'll second the 1/2 hippy, 1/2 RWL comment for the region. It's actually pretty interesting that they coexist there but they seem to get along. I'd say Portland proper leans left of the balance. If it looks like something you might want to do, I'd recommend a several day trip to see how it fits.

The gas stations? Yeah, they can get pretty upset if you touch the pump.

Technically the gas attendant thing only applies to gasoline. It is legal to pump your own diesel in Oregon, however some gas station attendants are not completely aware of that fact, so practical application varies from station to station.

The comments about the gas stations are amusing - remember how pissed off everyone was when they first started introducing self pump stations decades ago?

I don't know Jon. There are only two US states where there are not self service gas stations, New Jersey and Oregon. Most of us don't come across it very often and it's a slightly confusing and awkward experience if you weren't thinking about it before you stopped. I plan many of my trips up the US east coast to skip filling up in New Jersey if at all possible. I also don't care for restroom attendants.

Oh, I agree - we have a municipality (Richmond) here that has a full serve bylaw in effect "for safety". Both it and Oregon simply result in a lot of confusion for everyone but locals. Apparently the rationale in Oregon was employment, here is was safety.

I just find it amusing that when everyone was used to full serve they bitched about the change to self serve and now it's almost all self serve they get upset about mandatory full serve.

I used to take motorcycle tours through Oregon. The gas station attendants would usually hand me the nozzel and let me do the pumping. I guess the possibility of the attendant douching someone's crotch with gasoline was a good reason to ignore the rule.

Steve

Just ran across this post on a BMW website and I see others have added their knowledge as well.

"We have Pacific Pride commercial fuel card, no attendants/self-serve, so can pump our own. As far as Oregon's "no you-pump" law, an attendant at Love's (at I-5 Winston exit 119) told us you can pump your own diesel. Don't know if this is at all stations, or just at Love's."

So, a few twists to the attendant fuel pumping issue.

The Oregon law it too long to post here, (you can google it if you are interested,) but briefly it only applies to gasoline "because gasoline is so flammable" diesel is classified as a different class of fuel and is not covered in the "attendant must pump" law.

Sounds like an employment scheme to me.

So it is completely legal to pump your own diesel in Oregon (I just found that out late last year while driving through in my TDI), however some attendants don't seem to know that (or don't want to know.)

I "lived" in Portland on Soñadora for 3 months.

We considered moving there. Our kids were preschool. When we looked into the public school system, it was dismal (this was 2001). That was a show stopper. Maybe improved now, but back then Portland's public school system was rated as one of the worst in the country. Maybe not a problem if you home school or private school. The former seemed to be very common.

No sales tax in Oregon (which saved us thousands when we bought S). But state income tax is one of the highest in the country (2nd behind California).

Didn't sail on the river. But I did get a kick out of watching races. I watched one in particular where the wind and current were contrary. On the upwind leg, the boats were heeled over close hauled - and not moving

The p.o. of Soñadora 'sailed' up and down the river from Astoria up to the Dalles. They claimed they sailed quite a bit, but also did a lot of motoring.

The PNW is absolutely beautiful. It's God's country, as far as I'm concerned and in another life I would have moved to Seattle or Portland right after getting married.

thanks Sons. Education is important to us, and that could be a deal killer. I have a long list of con's that have nothing to do with the area and education is a biggie. Our daughter is a bit off from needing public schools at three, but still.

We'll do some digging into the current state of the state/city education system.

I've never sailed on a river, so I would imagine that it has it's own set of challenges. Any idea if the river is tidal all the way to Portland? You PNW'ers have such wild tide ranges to think about too.

kimbottles wrote:The Oregon law it too long to post here, (you can google it if you are interested,) but briefly it only applies to gasoline "because gasoline is so flammable" diesel is classified as a different class of fuel and is not covered in the "attendant must pump" law.

Sounds like an employment scheme to me.

So it is completely legal to pump your own diesel in Oregon (I just found that out late last year while driving through in my TDI), however some attendants don't seem to know that (or don't want to know.)

The fun part of that is gasoline in the tank is safer than some diesel as the gasoline vapor in a closed tank is concentrated above the Upper Explosive level (too rich to burn) while the less volatile diesel fumes in a close tank are between the Upper and Lower Explosive limits (IAW a spark can set it off). The Navy uses a different fuel than the air force for that reason. JP-5 is pretty safe to store. JP-4/8 (or a blend of JP-4/8 and JP-5) is not considered safe for storage in aircraft carrier tanks.

Slick470 wrote:thanks Sons. Education is important to us, and that could be a deal killer. I have a long list of con's that have nothing to do with the area and education is a biggie. Our daughter is a bit off from needing public schools at three, but still.

We'll do some digging into the current state of the state/city education system.

I've never sailed on a river, so I would imagine that it has it's own set of challenges. Any idea if the river is tidal all the way to Portland? You PNW'ers have such wild tide ranges to think about too.

Education in the Portland School District may be bad but it would be worth looking into the Suburbs like Tualatin, lake Oswego etc. Maybe better (?).

Slick470 wrote:thanks Sons. Education is important to us, and that could be a deal killer. I have a long list of con's that have nothing to do with the area and education is a biggie. Our daughter is a bit off from needing public schools at three, but still.

We'll do some digging into the current state of the state/city education system.

I've never sailed on a river, so I would imagine that it has it's own set of challenges. Any idea if the river is tidal all the way to Portland? You PNW'ers have such wild tide ranges to think about too.

Andy, I have a friend who lives in Portland and keep his boat in Puget Sound. (Actually I know several people who do that.) 100-200 mile drive depending on where you moor the boat, but Puget Sound sailing is much better than Columbia River sailing IMHO. Kim

Kim, most likely my wife would work remotely from a Seattle office within her current organization until she found something better or more local. That would mean that once a month or so, she would need to head up to show her face. I suppose we could keep the boat up there and visit it around her work trips. Kind of kills the random run to the boat on a week day though.

I drive 45 minutes or so to the boat currently, more with traffic. Not sure I would want to do much more.

Small Boat sailing in Portland is strong, they have a few classes such as lasers, tasars, Santana 20's etc (they change from time to time so check for current fleets) Just up the river is Cascade Locks to Hood River, some of the best sailing in the world for boards, kites, and other fast small boats. Windy and warm (air and water)

Very good houseboat community. Excellent Bikes trails, hiking and skiing. Lots of small airports and a strong aviation community esp around Van's Aircraft the largest kit builder in the world.

Pleasant city, best food trucks, good other food, solid arts and culture programs.

derekb wrote:Small Boat sailing in Portland is strong, they have a few classes such as lasers, tasars, Santana 20's etc (they change from time to time so check for current fleets) Just up the river is Cascade Locks to Hood River, some of the best sailing in the world for boards, kites, and other fast small boats. Windy and warm (air and water)

Very good houseboat community. Excellent Bikes trails, hiking and skiing. Lots of small airports and a strong aviation community esp around Van's Aircraft the largest kit builder in the world.

Pleasant city, best food trucks, good other food, solid arts and culture programs.

Cal 20s have a good fleet in Portland. Good cheap racing.

Slick470 wrote:Kim, most likely my wife would work remotely from a Seattle office within her current organization until she found something better or more local. That would mean that once a month or so, she would need to head up to show her face. I suppose we could keep the boat up there and visit it around her work trips. Kind of kills the random run to the boat on a week day though.

I drive 45 minutes or so to the boat currently, more with traffic. Not sure I would want to do much more.

Random weekday boat runs = OPB, the little boat, the cruiser project, the yacht club bar...... or getting all the home work done so you can spend a four day weekend on the PNW boat. M

Slick,

Been in Long Island this week for Semiannual boredom (err valuable meetings). Turns out one our road warriors is living in Portland. Virginia is a great lady in your age group and loves it there. I'll give you her card tomorrow. She is happy to get on the phone with you guys and address any questions.

Andy,

I had a similar situation last Fall, early stage discussions with a company there. Quality of local schools is always a top priority for us, and my brief research led me to Lake Oswego. Like most places with good schools, it appeared to have good quality of life and good property value retention.

Good luck in your next career move.

Charlie

While I've never lived in Portland a good friend lived in Lake Oswego for a long time - great area. A fist full of folks who work for me live there and love it. I don't know if "Jack's" is still in business, but it was a killer restaurant downtown, very old school.

Oh ya, my RENOVO wooden bike was built there. Cool people and I'll introduce you if you're interested.

Thanks Larry. It may be me and Ella tomorrow, or I may have to back out. We have had a rough week this week and Sarah is travelling for work next week and is behind with prep for the trip, so she is unlikely to make it down, but we'll see.

I have been so slammed with deadlines at work lately that I haven't had much of a chance to think about this opportunity much. Hell, I don't even have a resume put together if I wanted to pursue it. It also seems weird that I am currently heading up a recruitment process for my current firm, while discussing the potential of leaving. Feels a bit like trying to hire my replacement.

I also keep getting calls from a local head hunter with a similar position...

Haven't looked at Lake Oswego as far as schools. Sarah did a school rating search based off of Rick's comments and found that the highest rated schools are in Aloha and Corbett. She also confirmed that the Portland public schools are still ranked on the low end of the range. Their two highest ranked HS are ranked with the two lowest for the area we are currently in.

We've also looked into housing prices and not surprisingly, the areas with the better schools are closer in price to where we are here. To make that worthwhile, the position would need to be a decent bump to make the big move worth it.

I need to find some time to get things organised and research the job more. The posting was relatively vague and didn't include a salary range.

I will caution that HS rankings are extremely influenced by metric bias and gamed daily by administrators who have compensation and bonus plans based on those ratings.

There are standout schools at the top of the list and there are pretty average schools that game their way up the list. I wouldn't give much attention to rankings withing a quintile.