Scantlings

The sad news of an experienced couple being drowned and their vessel found minus the keel. The latest is she was a steel hull. Does anyone have insight into this design? My heart goes out to the family.

Evans posted some comments on the SA thread. Van de Stadt Samoa. Design should have had the keel welded to 3 ring frames with heavy floors and as strong as the hull. He does mention that some boats were build with bolt on keels as the combination of a deep fin and a hard dodger made for a very tall load on a truck. No details of how this Samoa was built. Long time cruisers with a reputation for a conservative safety posture. Skipper was a retired Merchant Mariner. Wife/CO skipper was the daughter of a Merchant Captain.

Bodies found some 18 miles from the boat.

LarryHoward wrote:Evans posted some comments on the SA thread. Van de Stadt Samoa. Design should have had the keel welded to 3 ring frames with heavy floors and as strong as the hull. He does mention that some boats were build with bolt on keels as the combination of a deep fin and a hard dodger made for a very tall load on a truck. No details of how this Samoa was built. Long time cruisers with a reputation for a conservative safety posture. Skipper was a retired Merchant Mariner. Wife/CO skipper was the daughter of a Merchant Captain.

Bodies found some 18 miles from the boat.

Thx Larry. I get why the keel was bolted on now. Road transport. Awful state of affairs.

cap10ed wrote:

LarryHoward wrote:Evans posted some comments on the SA thread. Van de Stadt Samoa. Design should have had the keel welded to 3 ring frames with heavy floors and as strong as the hull. He does mention that some boats were build with bolt on keels as the combination of a deep fin and a hard dodger made for a very tall load on a truck. No details of how this Samoa was built. Long time cruisers with a reputation for a conservative safety posture. Skipper was a retired Merchant Mariner. Wife/CO skipper was the daughter of a Merchant Captain.

Bodies found some 18 miles from the boat.

Thx Larry. I get why the keel was bolted on now. Road transport. Awful state of affairs.

Ed

I haven't heard that this boat had a bolted keel, only that some of the Somoas did. Certainly a lot of questions.

This is really sad. It is a sobering experience to talk with Chuck Hawley about sailing the big sloop CHARLIE back to Hawaii after her keel fell off. It'll make you want to stay ashore for a long time, or sail a fat boat!

BeauV wrote:This is really sad. It is a sobering experience to talk with Chuck Hawley about sailing the big sloop CHARLIE back to Hawaii after her keel fell off. It'll make you want to stay ashore for a long time, or sail a fat boat!

Or get Tim Nolan to design your keel attachment..........

I think the jury is still out on how the keel was attached.

But it definitely fell off, the rudder was pristine so it was not a grounding.

kimbottles wrote:

BeauV wrote:This is really sad. It is a sobering experience to talk with Chuck Hawley about sailing the big sloop CHARLIE back to Hawaii after her keel fell off. It'll make you want to stay ashore for a long time, or sail a fat boat!

Or get Tim Nolan to design your keel attachment..........

Or have a keel aspect ratio of 1:20

According to SA it was a steel Samoa, with a bolt on keel, not welded.

Ran aground about 6 years ago in the PNW, developed a leak which was repaired.

That is me on the foredeck of FL in Steves pic, I think we were dropping the mooring to go back to Kim's.

We plan to be there in the Tartan this year, looking forward to it.

Olaf Hart wrote:According to SA it was a steel Samoa, with a bolt on keel, not welded.

Ran aground about 6 years ago in the PNW, developed a leak which was repaired.

That is me on the foredeck of FL in Steves pic, I think we were dropping the mooring to go back to Kim's.

We plan to be there in the Tartan this year, looking forward to it.

That's us on the right, looking small.

We might be there this year, depends on the knee. By car, if at all.

Ish wrote:

Olaf Hart wrote:According to SA it was a steel Samoa, with a bolt on keel, not welded.

Ran aground about 6 years ago in the PNW, developed a leak which was repaired.

That is me on the foredeck of FL in Steves pic, I think we were dropping the mooring to go back to Kim's.

We plan to be there in the Tartan this year, looking forward to it.

That's us on the right, looking small.

We might be there this year, depends on the knee. By car, if at all.

You don't know from small until you've spent a week on the ocean in that thing with six other manly men, too many sails, and not enough water.

And yet you're going back for more, a triumph of optimism over experience.

Rob McAlpine wrote:And yet you're going back for more, a triumph of optimism over experience.

We'll have enough water this time.

Orestes Munn wrote:

Rob McAlpine wrote:And yet you're going back for more, a triumph of optimism over experience.

We'll have enough water this time.

I can see you guys throwing the horses overboard when it gets tight.

Ish wrote:

Orestes Munn wrote:

Rob McAlpine wrote:And yet you're going back for more, a triumph of optimism over experience.

We'll have enough water this time.

I can see you guys throwing the horses overboard when it gets tight.

If they don't get to us first.

LarryHoward wrote:Evans posted some comments on the SA thread. Van de Stadt Samoa. Design should have had the keel welded to 3 ring frames with heavy floors and as strong as the hull. He does mention that some boats were build with bolt on keels as the combination of a deep fin and a hard dodger made for a very tall load on a truck. No details of how this Samoa was built. Long time cruisers with a reputation for a conservative safety posture. Skipper was a retired Merchant Mariner. Wife/CO skipper was the daughter of a Merchant Captain.

Bodies found some 18 miles from the boat.

What keeps me thinking is how a decision to go with a bolted on keel may have been the decision that killed them, despite apparently doing so many other things right.

I wouldn't have given it a thought.

Wondering if I should drop my keel and check the bolts, no particular reason but a bit like checking the chainplates on an older boat.

It's out of character for me though, my motto is "shit happens, then you die"......

Our big heavy Wylie-65 had lead poured inside the hull - no bolts. There is no way to get the engine out of the boat, other than to cut the bottom open with a torch. These old Scotish fishermen build tough metal boats, and everything (and I do mean EVERYTHING) is welded shut. They trust welds. They don't trust bolts, glues, rivits, etc.... "You want a cleat there, I can have one on in 5 min." he says popping the flame on the welder.

BeauV wrote:Our big heavy Wylie-65 had lead poured inside the hull - no bolts. There is no way to get the engine out of the boat, other than to cut the bottom open with a torch. These old Scotish fishermen build tough metal boats, and everything (and I do mean EVERYTHING) is welded shut. They trust welds. They don't trust bolts, glues, rivits, etc.... "You want a cleat there, I can have one on in 5 min." he says popping the flame on the welder.

Having worked on steel ships my whole life I have a big slant towards Steel boats for just that reason. Weld it in place and eliminate the risk. I am also an advocated for single point inlet for sea water ( aka sea chest. ). Tee off the chest for all the vessels needs and cut down the the number of through hulls. My boat has way to many through hulls. Next dry dock I will look at fixing that by putting in a sea chest. Steel boats are like wood boats. If your not doing due diligence on electrolysis and its associate problems you are a asking for trouble. Maybe the bolts were suspect from just that ???