Scantlings

I know there has been ample discussion on this but (involving other daughters) but I can't seem to find it in the "This Weekend" thread.

Scantlinger's are good at this stuff....I'm not. Particulars are:

- should be purchased in Virginia to save some sales tax $$$

- budget is 20K or less.

Another name for the this thread could be: "BEST CARS FOR UNDER 20K" and the sub-thread is BUY NEW OR USED.

thanks for all your wisdom.

TF

1966 Morgan in middling conditions:

My observation is that the people with no money at all, who drive cars abandoned by anyone with a dime, tend to drive Hondas and Toyotas. They must be the champions for longevity.

Under 20k is a huge market. What other requirements? AWD? Hatch, suv, sedan? Gas mileage a priority?

At 20K, she is close to a CPO lower end Honda or Toyota with low miles and a lot of life remaining.the extra warranty is a great thing for a youngster. If she wants something fancy, 20K still gets a good car but a Lexus, Infiniti, etc. for that will be pushing 100k miles and bring some repair cost risks within a few years. Used Subies are hard to buy as they really hold their value.

Good stuff, thanks for responding!

Love the Morgan, Beau.

I think she wants a small SVU that gets decent mileage....22-27 would be acceptable. Right now we are in the used Rogue or Tiguan manner of thinking....

Tim,

I represent a number of car dealers. Avoid the Tiguan! Rogue, Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4 would be my choices.

Joel

Good to know, thanks Joel. Now she is looking at Jeep Compass...personally, not a fan of the Jeep line. Although, a little internet research shows better than average Frequency of Repair and repair costs.

I represent a Jeep dealer too. I'm on the same page as you.
Let me know if I can help.

TheOffice wrote:Tim,

I represent a number of car dealers. Avoid the Tiguan! Rogue, Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4 would be my choices.

Joel

I second the "avoid Tiguan" comment.

We just had rental Tiguan and were surprised at how poorly it drove. That is saying a LOT considering the very low standards that I have in this area. For example, I think my wife's Prius drives fine.

Steve

Subaru Forester, 2009 or later.
Subaru Cross Trek.

Consumer reports is the only source I respect for reliability reports. They don't think much of the Jeep line. For example: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/car-brands/jeep/index.htm.

Ignore JD Power reports.

I would not buy a car without checking it out in Lemonaid.
http://www.lemonaidcars.com/

He is not a fan of any Jeep/Chrysler products. Honda, Toyota, Subaru are his top brands.
I rode in the back seat of a Rogue once. Hideously uncomfortable, and the Nissan line is regarded as somewhat biodegradable.

JoeP wrote:Subaru Forester, 2009 or later.
Subaru Cross Trek.

Consumer reports is the only source I respect for reliability reports. They don't think much of the Jeep line. For example: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/car-brands/jeep/index.htm.

Ignore JD Power reports.

I left out the Crosstrek. I know a couple of folks who have them and are very happy. Reported to be a bit buzzy at highway speeds so a test drive should include some interstate time.

My 2 cents would be no FCA or German cars.

Mazda hatch or sedan of some kind. Good reliability, cheap to fix, decent crash ratings, decent to drive. I got my son an older Mazda 6. My daughter got Tricky's tricked-out 2003 Acura TL-S.

Jamie wrote:My 2 cents would be no FCA or German cars.

Mazda hatch or sedan of some kind. Good reliability, cheap to fix, decent crash ratings, decent to drive. I got my son an older Mazda 6. My daughter got Tricky's tricked-out 2003 Acura TL-S.

https://www.heritagesubarucatonsville.c ... hDepth=1:6

Or the Mazda idea. Daughter’s 2007 M-6 was indestructible but the 3rd wreck (all others at fault) made it a commuter bomb for someone. No experience with newer ones other than rentals.

LarryHoward wrote:

Jamie wrote:My 2 cents would be no FCA or German cars.

Mazda hatch or sedan of some kind. Good reliability, cheap to fix, decent crash ratings, decent to drive. I got my son an older Mazda 6. My daughter got Tricky's tricked-out 2003 Acura TL-S.

https://www.heritagesubarucatonsville.c ... hDepth=1:6

Or the Mazda idea. Daughter’s 2007 M-6 was indestructible but the 3rd wreck (all others at fault) made it a commuter bomb for someone. No experience with newer ones other than rentals.

Wife’s Mazda 3 with the bigger engine and R45s is cute as a bug and a total pisser to drive. We also put 2 weeks of cruising crap in it last year. Only 6300 miles on it, though, so no reliability data.

Client gave up a Mazda franchise. Not enough service business to make money.

How about a VW Golf?

Great stuff, thanks Scantlingers.

Ditto on the Fiat - Chrysler line and new German contrivances (sorry Keith)

I have a Mazda coming up on 5 yrs old, to date it's run perfectly, so that has been my recommendation, but you know how kids are. Love the comment about the Mazda service shop, Joel.

Thanks folks and I'll let the kid know about the Subaru in Catonsville, at 9.

kdh wrote:How about a VW Golf?

I loved the one I had (GTI).

kimbottles wrote:

kdh wrote:How about a VW Golf?

I loved the one I had (GTI).

We've owned all sorts of VDubbs, from 2-3 bugs, a diesel jetta, a Fox (sucked), two or three Golfs, including a diesel and a Wolfsburg edition. All worked well. But I think that ship has sailed, figuratively speaking.

Actually, my wife had a Horizon with a Rabbit engine that was a Complete. Piece. Of schitt.

Tim Ford wrote:

kimbottles wrote:

kdh wrote:How about a VW Golf?

I loved the one I had (GTI).

We've owned all sorts of VDubbs, from 2-3 bugs, a diesel jetta, a Fox (sucked), two or three Golfs, including a diesel and a Wolfsburg edition. All worked well. But I think that ship has sailed, figuratively speaking.

Actually, my wife had a Horizon with a Rabbit engine that was a Complete. Piece. Of schitt.

I bought a 1986 GTI brand new. Fun car, which ran well for about five years and 80K mi, when it started burning oil. Also had an Omni with the VW engine. That thing barely ran at all.

Wife had a 2008 diesel Jetta. Good car, except for the 1.3 asthmatics she murdered with it. Put about 60k on it with minor, but expensive, electronic issues.

Yes, all too familiar with the electronics issues! (and the asthmatics)

TheOffice wrote:Client gave up a Mazda franchise. Not enough service business to make money.

My Mazda 5 doesn't get to the dealer often, but when it does, it seems expensive, maybe because I figure in 1965 prices. There is a bias toward performance and away from economy (mpg) and ruggedness. (It's the only car in which I've bent a wheel!) Fuel economy may be better with SkyActive (dumb name) technology.

CR-V or Forester.

We were talking about car brands and stuff at work recently, one of the comments one of my colleagues made was. "Never trust a car made by a white man".
When you think about it, there's actually some truth in that.

Tim Ford wrote:Good to know, thanks Joel. Now she is looking at Jeep Compass...personally, not a fan of the Jeep line. Although, a little internet research shows better than average Frequency of Repair and repair costs.

No!!! No no no no!!! Back away slowly and no one gets hurt. I owned a compass, purchased brand new did regular maintenance, and at 60,000 miles of light driving I had to replace my entire front assembly to the tune of $3000. Took it to several places first, all said the same thing. Doing some reading on the interwebz this was not uncommon.

The Red Lady wrote:

Tim Ford wrote:Good to know, thanks Joel. Now she is looking at Jeep Compass...personally, not a fan of the Jeep line. Although, a little internet research shows better than average Frequency of Repair and repair costs.

No!!! No no no no!!! Back away slowly and no one gets hurt. I owned a compass, purchased brand new did regular maintenance, and at 60,000 miles of light driving I had to replace my entire front assembly to the tune of $3000. Took it to several places first, all said the same thing. Doing some reading on the interwebz this was not uncommon.

THANKS JESS! I will let the kid know. Valuable info and I appreciate it!

I have known several people with Jeeps. Nothing major with them, but little annoyances like all the upholstery turning to compost in 14 months.

A little late to the party, but I've used https://www.edmunds.com/ for research and comparative pricing info whenever I am in the market. Had a friend in the car biz who verified Edmund's info is pretty accurate. We drive two 10+yr old Toyotas and a 5 yr old Hyundai. We only average 10k per year (love working from home), so our cars are low mileage for their age.

It is amazing how much little upkeep Toyotas require. I had a mid-90s Jeep Gr Cherokee that was a nightmare. We had a rare Maryland blizzard with 3 ft of snow... and this was the day the Jeep wouldn't start. Stuck driving to downtown, snowy Ball-mer in a rear-drive TBird. Yes, that is eons ago and you would hope Jeep made improvements. As Jess has experienced, they seem to be riding on their mystique versus a track-record of quality.

IrieMon wrote:A little late to the party, but I've used https://www.edmunds.com/ for research and comparative pricing info whenever I am in the market. Had a friend in the car biz who verified Edmund's info is pretty accurate. We drive two 10+yr old Toyotas and a 5 yr old Hyundai. We only average 10k per year (love working from home), so our cars are low mileage for their age.

It is amazing how much little upkeep Toyotas require. I had a mid-90s Jeep Gr Cherokee that was a nightmare. We had a rare Maryland blizzard with 3 ft of snow... and this was the day the Jeep wouldn't start. Stuck driving to downtown, snowy Ball-mer in a rear-drive TBird. Yes, that is eons ago and you would hope Jeep made improvements. As Jess has experienced, they seem to be riding on their mystique versus a track-record of quality.

To quote my friends who swear by their Jeeps, “it’s a Jeep thing. You wouldn’t understand.” Those guys shrug off the nuisance issues as no big deal. Their loyalty is “interesting.”

Mixed feelings in Toyota. My wife has a 2006 Sienna AWD that she bought to replace a Dodge minivan. We expected a quantum leap in reliability and it hasn’t really delivered. Multiple latent defects that earned extended warranty coverage that expired literally a few months before the expensive problem showed up in her car. The run flat tires lasted less than 10,000 miles despite 4 wheel alignments every service interval. 3 sets during the warranty period (a consent agreement for the defect made them responsible for the tires for the first 3/36). Really annoyed me when I asked the dealer about the reports of problems and was told point blank that it had been corrected when the VIN they sold me was covered by the agreement. Driver’s door open stop had insufficient weld and broke off at 5,000 miles. “First we’ve seen” from the dealer but the body shop they sent me to told me they did several per month under the warranty. Power rear doors have a history of actuator linkage/cable failure that costs $2,500 to fix per door. Dash cracks prematurely. Mine cracked 3 months after the extended warranty expired. $1,500-1,800 if I want that fixed.

As the only AWD minivan on the market at the time (late 2005) we were stuck and bought the full up “limited” variant, presented as the Lexus of minivans. Residual value of the 12 YO Toyota is so low that I’ll keep it until it starts to die and then donate it to a charity. I’ve been pretty disappointed with the annoying problems but acknowledge that other Toyota owners have had a better experience.