Scantlings

I've set a tentative date of 1 Jan 2022 and given myself until then to develop enough of a consulting business to fund the boat in decent style and travel business class. The Monte Carlo simulations tell us we can do that with neither of us working past 65 and pass something on to Baby, but I don't want to quit working entirely and the idea of spending what I've always regarded as capital depresses me.

Anyway, I'm announcing it here because I want it to be maximally mortifying if I chicken out.

I'm too cheap to fly business class.

I'm determined at some point not to be depressed about "spending capital." Why do you have it if it can't be spent? What purpose does dying with it serve? My in-laws are going to fail miserably at this, much to my frustration.

kdh wrote:I'm too cheap to fly business class.

I'm determined at some point not to be depressed about "spending capital." Why do you have it if it can't be spent? What purpose does dying with it serve? My in-laws are going to fail miserably at this, much to my frustration.

Re business, I am cheap and happy with economy plus for anything transat or shorter, but I like to sit with my wife, who is not, shall we say, cheap.

The capital thing has to do with inheriting money along with a lot of ambivalence and stern lectures. At least that much needs to be preserved in inflated dollars or I would feel like a complete scoundrel. Fortunately, we haven't spent any of the income since I was in medical school or internship.

You are a self-made man. I am not.

Orestes Munn wrote:

kdh wrote:I'm too cheap to fly business class.

I'm determined at some point not to be depressed about "spending capital." Why do you have it if it can't be spent? What purpose does dying with it serve? My in-laws are going to fail miserably at this, much to my frustration.

Re business, I am cheap and happy with economy plus for anything transat or shorter, but I like to sit with my wife, who is not, shall we say, cheap.

The capital thing has to do with inheriting money along with a lot of ambivalence and stern lectures. At least that much needs to be preserved in inflated dollars or I would feel like a complete scoundrel. Fortunately, we haven't spent any of the income since I was in medical school or internship.

You are a self-made man. I am not.

Keith is wise, and so is your wife.

Premium economy works for me.
I am like Keith; too cheap to pay for more than PE.
(But Susan does like nice hotel rooms.)
And our kids keep encouraging us to spend their inheritance on boats.

It’s not up to my kid and she doesn’t really want to know. If I asked her she’d say spend it.

If at first you don't succeed..... If I were your kid I would tell you spend it, but work to the extent you feel it keeps you engaged and active. In other words, do the work you want to do rather than what you, "have", to do.

I'm short, so long haul premium economy suits me fine.

Jamie wrote:work to the extent you feel it keeps you engaged and active. In other words, do the work you want to do rather than what you, "have", to do.

Yeah, that's the idea. Mainly, I want more flexibility and more than a month off a year, but I want to stay connected and busy. The tightening regulatory ratchet here is also taking a lot of the fun out of things, so I'm ready to do something else.

Orestes Munn wrote:

Jamie wrote:work to the extent you feel it keeps you engaged and active. In other words, do the work you want to do rather than what you, "have", to do.

Yeah, that's the idea. Mainly, I want more flexibility and more than a month off a year, but I want to stay connected and busy. The tightening regulatory ratchet here is also taking a lot of the fun out of things, so I'm ready to do something else.

You could take a Summer off and cruise to Maine, even.

Jamie wrote:

Orestes Munn wrote:

Jamie wrote:work to the extent you feel it keeps you engaged and active. In other words, do the work you want to do rather than what you, "have", to do.

Yeah, that's the idea. Mainly, I want more flexibility and more than a month off a year, but I want to stay connected and busy. The tightening regulatory ratchet here is also taking a lot of the fun out of things, so I'm ready to do something else.

You could take a Summer off and cruise to Maine, even.

That's on my list!

As someone who is clinging by a thin thin thread to success at Retirement 4.0.......

A few of thoughts:

A) I view my role in life and my life's work as protecting and providing for my family and those I love. In our society and during this era that means money. While money most certainly doesn't buy happiness, it does buy protection from many things which are genuinely awful. As a result, before we started giving money away to strangers and buying old schooners to fix up I had to be certain that everyone was inside the walls of the fortress and that it was sturdy and well guarded. Without doubt, this is the biggest reason I can't step away from money making pursuits and just rent ELEONORA for a year (Thanks Keith, the big schooner was a big hit with the Admiral. If things go right on one deal, we might be organizing something along these lines.)

B) Secondly, my family keeps expanding. Marrying the Admiral brought in two more kids and now three grand daughters (will 2.7) as one is still in the oven. The fortress needed expanding and the price of real estate means that building the fortress has become vastly more expensive.

C) Bill Gates went from flying in coach to flying in his own gigantic jet. I have the distinct advantage of only being 5'7" and 150 lbs, so a "coach" seat (if you can call those things seats) fits me far better than it does my tall friend Kim. But I think we just use flying coach as an abbreviation for "spending for comfort" and I have distinct views on that. For example, while here in LA I stay at the Best Western in Wilmington. The rate is $98/night and includes breakfast, which I eat - I paid for it. When the Admiral is with me we stay at the Doubletree at a rate of $270/night and no breakfast. She's worth it and it matters to her. When I'm asleep, I have no idea what room I'm in. Also the ladies at the Best Western are helping me with my Spanish. I joke about being cheap, but that's not it. I really HATE waste and for me a room at the St. Regis in NY is a complete waste. For the same reason, I am not made happier by wearing expensive cloths and other baubles. I'm much happier concentrating my spending on buying things that make those I love happy, where I spend like a drunken sailor. (How did sailors get so maligned?)

D) Ultimately, I can't stand the idea of intellectual death by boredom. So, I continue to find "projects" to work on and have joined a number of not for profit boards, I'm on the cusp of joining a late stage start up. What happens is, those organizations start to become part of the family and I feel strongly that one does everything possible to protect the family, maybe tribe is a better word for it. I was on a board when the CEO had a devastating personal catastrophe, he couldn't work. The board members discussed what to do with the company, which represented the CEO's total net worth. I stepped in, ran the company, got it sold, and the CEO's family has been well taken care of. This isn't because I wanted a job in Charlotte, NC, it's because that's what you do for your family/tribe if your a protection oriented guy like me. Frankly, that's what I do because it makes me happy to get it done.

All of the above is why #1 daughter once said: "Dad, of course you like German Shepherd dogs. You are just like them." She then reminded me of a story I'd told her when she was small: There are are three kinds of people in the world. Most are sheep and happy to munch the grass, a few are evil and they are the wolves preying on the sheep. Then there are the sheep dogs whose true join in life is kicking the tar out of the wolves and protecting the sheep.

Eric, from what I've seen there is far more of the sheep dog in you that you acknowledge. Your actions to help my son when he had a medical problem is something I will never forget. Thank you!! Only sheep dogs do this. You may find that what you need to do is find an extended family/tribe/flock to patrol and protect. So far, that is working for me.

Good luck - retirement is HARD to maintain for many of us. It was easy to go to work.

Thanks, Beau. Can a Mexican Hairless herd sheep?

Orestes Munn wrote:Thanks, Beau. Can a Mexican Hairless herd sheep?

Eric, you WIN! You just made me spit my coffee out my nose!!!

You know me, I have to investigate everything. So..... It turns out that the Mexican Hairless is quite protective of its family. Here's what Wikipedia has to say: "Long regarded as guardians and protectors, the indigenous peoples believed that the Xolo would safeguard the home from evil spirits as well as intruders." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Hairless_Dog)

Who knew????

Eric,

Congrats on having a plan! Sue turns 62 and retires on 6/1/2023. I'll be 66 the following month. While I won't retire, I will be scarce. That summer we hope to cruise to New England. After spending the fall at home we hope to cruise to the Caribbean and then back home by way of the Dominican and Cuba.

We have a list of long term upgrades for the boat. Some are cosmetic to keep her happy - new vanity tops in the heads, new countertops in the galley. Some are more practical - solar, 3 burner stove in place of the 2 burner, dingy and davits,inner forestay for staysail.

I started with little besides the education my mom paid for. I've paid my share of 4 years of private college for my kids. I hope to live long enough to enjoy life. I don't worry about how much I leave to my kids. I've given them the means to fulfill their own dreams.

Joel

kdh wrote:I'm determined at some point not to be depressed about "spending capital." Why do you have it if it can't be spent? What purpose does dying with it serve?

My maternal grandfather was a stock broker. He said "Saving makes no sense except as deferred spending."

Jamie wrote:If at first you don't succeed..... If I were your kid I would tell you spend it, but work to the extent you feel it keeps you engaged and active. In other words, do the work you want to do rather than what you, "have", to do.

I'm short, so long haul premium economy suits me fine.

I usually don’t care where I sit, though I do like a window. I once flew coach from Shanghai to Chicago. Middle seat. That sucked.

Charlie wrote:

Jamie wrote:If at first you don't succeed..... If I were your kid I would tell you spend it, but work to the extent you feel it keeps you engaged and active. In other words, do the work you want to do rather than what you, "have", to do.

I'm short, so long haul premium economy suits me fine.

I usually don’t care where I sit, though I do like a window. I once flew coach from Shanghai to Chicago. Middle seat. That sucked.

Ouch! Middle seats are the, "please hang me seats". I strongly believe in always having an exit strategy, and I pee a lot, so I make sure I get an aisle seat.

Jamie wrote:

Charlie wrote:

Jamie wrote:If at first you don't succeed..... If I were your kid I would tell you spend it, but work to the extent you feel it keeps you engaged and active. In other words, do the work you want to do rather than what you, "have", to do.

I'm short, so long haul premium economy suits me fine.

I usually don’t care where I sit, though I do like a window. I once flew coach from Shanghai to Chicago. Middle seat. That sucked.

Ouch! Middle seats are the, "please hang me seats". I strongly believe in always having an exit strategy, and I pee a lot, so I make sure I get an aisle seat.

Flew DC-Tokyo once in coach. That was enough. Since then I have been lucky enough to have generous sponsors when I've gone transpac. I am going to Sydney in May and there's simply no way I'm doing that in the back of the plane.

Europe is no problem in premium economy, but I hate having zero leg room or being deep in the middle of a row. When we get to the airport, my wife heads for the business class lounge, waves to me as she boards with the swells, and we see each other next morning.

Orestes Munn wrote:

Jamie wrote:

Charlie wrote:

Jamie wrote:If at first you don't succeed..... If I were your kid I would tell you spend it, but work to the extent you feel it keeps you engaged and active. In other words, do the work you want to do rather than what you, "have", to do.

I'm short, so long haul premium economy suits me fine.

I usually don’t care where I sit, though I do like a window. I once flew coach from Shanghai to Chicago. Middle seat. That sucked.

Ouch! Middle seats are the, "please hang me seats". I strongly believe in always having an exit strategy, and I pee a lot, so I make sure I get an aisle seat.

Flew DC-Tokyo once in coach. That was enough. Since then I have been lucky enough to have generous sponsors when I've gone transpac. I am going to Sydney in May and there's simply no way I'm doing that in the back of the plane.

Europe is no problem in premium economy, but I hate having zero leg room or being deep in the middle of a row. When we get to the airport, my wife heads for the business class lounge, waves to me as she boards with the swells, and we see each other next morning.

I fly to Asia 2-3x p.a. on my own dime and I'm still too cheap for business class. My wife is even worse. I'm still working off the miles I accrued over the 5 years I was flying 200-250k p.a. (small change for many but A LOT for me). Let's see what happens when the protected status runs out sometime next year. I may have to eat my words or get one of those fancy AMEX cards. (I hate AMEX).

Warren Buffett says the best part of being rich is flying private. Easy to understand.

kdh wrote:Warren Buffett says the best part of being rich is flying private. Easy to understand.

I say the best part of being poor is not flying.

kdh wrote:Warren Buffett says the best part of being rich is flying private. Easy to understand.

Based on the few times I’ve done it, I agree.

One time I flew to Santa Rosa on a private jet for a meeting, but due to schedules, had to then take a bus from there back down to SFO. Two ends of the travel spectrum in a single day!

Panope wrote:

kdh wrote:Warren Buffett says the best part of being rich is flying private. Easy to understand.

I say the best part of being poor is not flying.

Amen to that ^^^^^

When I left Private Equity I got a personal letter from the VP of Ops of United asked if they had done something wrong. I was surprised at the personal approach, given United is the closest we get to Aeroflot in the US. I sent him a letter back saying: "I'm successful enough not to have to fly anywhere." His response was really funny: "I wish you well and hope like hell that our other customers are not that successful!"

If it were not for my wife's planning of our family holidays, I could (happily) never fly again. About the only thing that would get me exited about air travel would be a crew position on a cool boat on a cool off-shore passage.

My Ex-wife was a corporate jet pilot. Owner of the company (for whom she worked) was also a pilot. This meant that when I tagged along on a trip to Europe, I was the ONLY person in the back of the plane for the first half of the trip. For the return trip home, I HAD to share MY cabin with the boss's girlfriend. We visited England, Cypress, Austria, Switzerland and Germany with stops in Iceland and Baffin Island on the way home.

At the time, I thought it was a dream come true but now I recognize there was a lot of weirdness.

Once was enough.

Steve

Panope wrote:

kdh wrote:Warren Buffett says the best part of being rich is flying private. Easy to understand.

I say the best part of being poor is not flying.

This, exactly.

Well, I'm glad you have set a date.

We will probably retire at about the same time, although I'll be pushing 68. Lynne is my "Child Bride" and plans on working until 62 and not a lot of sense in retiring before she does. We are just trying to amass sufficient capital to do the last major refurb on the house and maintain our current living standard and leave "something" for the kids. Last run through the planning spreadsheet has a sufficient cash flow to do that for about 20 years following retirement with assets such as home equity and some long term investment products untouched so unless I substantially outlive the actuarial tables, life should be pretty good with a bit left over for unexpectedly extended longevity or for the 3 kids to throw a party. Each additional year of working adds to the pot, pays for the house rehab and for water toy maintenance.

Kids got debt free college and a solid start. After that, it's up to them. All three seem to be doing fine at the moment although Chris is lusting for an expensive to maintain German sports car to suck up any excess income. In fact, he's putting together a value spreadsheet comparing anticipated acquisition and first year costs for 3 that are on the market (2 in SOCAL and one in Atlanta) with varying options and mileage in preparation for negotiations. He "overanalyzed" one in Portland last month and it sold the day before he was prepared to make an offer. In the meantime, he lives cheap, funds his 401 and puts money in his "car account" each payday.

From what I've seen and heard, I think your kids are OK.

I'm tall, with aches and pains from a life of rugby and rock climbing. Beth and I fly first, makes a huge difference to my back, especially on long flights.

I used to fly on company King Air's and Gulfstreams a lot. It was a nice way to fly, but 1/2 of the flights were taking me away from my family.

A lot of guys in Midland have jets. Most, but not all of them, are on second or third wives. I knew a long time ago how hard I would have to work to afford a jet and made a conscious decision not to, as it would have taken too much time from the family. I'm not rich, but I'm very happy with life.

I totally agree with Beau's statement about building a safe "fortress" for the family, but I figure that part is pretty well done. The big thing is my daughter with health issues.

My business partner uses NetJets which, money aside, to me, is the ultimate way to fly. Or a service like it.

It's truly awesome. Show up at the local airfield, drive up to the plane and go. No security, all the small airports are available at the destination. Refreshments of any sort are onboard. Short travel times. Completely private, just you and the family.

I suspect jet ownership makes about as much economic sense as owning a large motor yacht. Of course, using NetJets does not give the same bragging rights as owning a GulfStream.