Scantlings

I've been out of biking for at least 40 years and have missed a lot of the advancements in technology. (duh)

Having purchased the two vintage, old-school,10-speeds, recently, my interest has been renewed. The bike forums are both amazingly informative and amazingly annoying, in that they mimic sailing forums in terms of being argumentative and full of know-it-alls, contradictory information...and the like.

I know some of you Scantlingers are riders, former racers and bike fiends. So I figure I'd rather get the bike low-down from you all. Saves joining another forum and plus I trust everyone on Scantlings implicitly.

My first question is: I have an old derelict Coventry Eagle (Reynolds 531 Double-butted frame) with a shirt-load of Campy parts on it. Should I think about swapping out some of the Campy parts from the old bike on to the vintage Peugots? Or would that detract from the purity of the vintage Peugeots?

Second question: what do you guys ride...and why?

I just ordered a hard copy of Eugene Sloane's repair book (have no idea where my 1972 copy is). Just need to gather (e.g., find) all the old tools and get going on an overhaul of both of les vélos. Bike maintenance being infinitely preferable to car maintenance!

Tim Ford wrote:I've been out of biking for at least 40 years and have missed a lot of the advancements in technology. (duh)

Having purchased the two vintage, old-school,10-speeds, recently, my interest has been renewed. The bike forums are both amazingly informative and amazingly annoying, in that they mimic sailing forums in terms of being argumentative and full of know-it-alls, contradictory information...and the like.

I know some of you Scantlingers are riders, former racers and bike fiends. So I figure I'd rather get the bike low-down from you all. Saves joining another forum and plus I trust everyone on Scantlings implicitly.

My first question is: I have an old derelict Coventry Eagle (Reynolds 531 Double-butted frame) with a shirt-load of Campy parts on it. Should I think about swapping out some of the Campy parts from the old bike on to the vintage Peugots? Or would that detract from the purity of the vintage Peugots?

Second question: what do you guys ride...and why?

I just ordered a hard copy of Eugene Sloane's repair book (have no idea where my 1972 copy is). Just need to gather (e.g., find) all the old tools and get going on an overhaul of both of les vélos. Bike maintenance being infinitely preferable to car maintenance!

XY peugot.jpg

Tough call, I would seriously consider leaving the Peugots as original. However as a Campy guy it is hard to turn away from such good components.

I ride Colnago, Merckx, Sakai and Bulgier frames, almost 100% Campy.

Wow...watched the Colnago Dream Build video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3xSEutsgLQ (that guy is messing with carbon fibre without a dust mask a lot more than I would!)

The rear cassette looks like it has 10 cogs. Does anyone really shift thru all those gears? Back in the day, my girlfriend's younger brother bought an 18 speed. I thought it was overkill back then. But I'm not doing 1,800 vertical feet in the Alps that often.

Is a 16,000 USD bike that much better than a 6,000 USD bike? What's the payoff, is it strictly in weight? Or ergonomics? This is a whole new world, for me. Almost glad I don't have the discretionary income to mess with this level of bike build.

Almost.

Tim Ford wrote:
Is a 16,000 USD bike that much better than a 6,000 USD bike? What's the payoff, is it strictly in weight? Or ergonomics? This is a whole new world, for me. Almost glad I don't have the discretionary income to mess with this level of bike build.

Is a $255,000 Ferarri really that much better than a $180,000 Ferrari?

Geeesh, get a beach cruiser with big fat tires. We humans are a funny group, says the guy who has a hand-built custom wooden bike.

Yes a $16,000 bike is better, but by how much?
Dollars vs utility?

(But riding a top level bike sure is fun.)

For the record I enjoy my steel Merckx MXLeader as much as my carbon Merckx AMX. They are just different.

I used to do a lot of road riding around here, it was a piece of cake to take the empty frontage roads to Odessa and back. No more. The once empty frontage roads are now packed with speeding semis with inattentive drivers. It's a death wish. Skinny wheel bike hasn't been out of the garage in years.

Rob McAlpine wrote:I used to do a lot of road riding around here, it was a piece of cake to take the empty frontage roads to Odessa and back. No more. The once empty frontage roads are now packed with speeding semis with inattentive drivers. It's a death wish. Skinny wheel bike hasn't been out of the garage in years.

Rob, my Admiral and I have had a similar experience. Also, we read up on the levels of air pollution from cars on the highways and decided that we'd move our riding to someplace less polluted. That has resulted in a bike rack for the SUV and us driving to places where we can ride along the coast trail or other bike paths. It has been three years since I rode CA Highway 1 along the coast (one of my all-time favorite rides), during that time almost a dozen bike riders have been killed and I haven't counted the injured. Ah me.....

Only swap if something’s broken and even then it might make more sense to buy new. Nice as vintage Campy stuff is, it doesn’t work nearly as well as today’s bottom level Shimano.

Right now, I have a Lynskey titanium cyclocross bike set up for gravel and commuting, a Cervélo R3 (carbon fiber), and the old steel custom Peter Mooney I used to race on, so I’ve got all the good frame materials represented.

YouTube has a wealth of great bike repair and maintenance material. I use it all the time.

If you find you’re not using the whole cassette, then it’s the wrong one for your topography.

Benno von Humpback wrote:If you find you’re not using the whole cassette, then it’s the wrong one for your topography.

BoH - great point. The Santa Cruz mountains are full of steep climbs and fast downhills. As a result, I have three rings on the front sprocket, with a tiny mountain bike ring as the smallest and an oversize large ring. It has reduced the crossover, so I have to shift both front and back at once more often, but I can grind out really tough climbs easier with my old flabby legs, while I still get to push on the fast downhills.

BeauV wrote:

Benno von Humpback wrote:If you find you’re not using the whole cassette, then it’s the wrong one for your topography.

BoH - great point. The Santa Cruz mountains are full of steep climbs and fast downhills. As a result, I have three rings on the front sprocket, with a tiny mountain bike ring as the smallest and an oversize large ring. It has reduced the crossover, so I have to shift both front and back at once more often, but I can grind out really tough climbs easier with my old flabby legs, while I still get to push on the fast downhills.

You ride a triple!

Oh my......

(For the record Beau, the front ones are “chainrings” and the back ones are “cogs”......and as Benno notes, the cogs all together are a “cassette”.)

kimbottles wrote:

BeauV wrote:

Benno von Humpback wrote:If you find you’re not using the whole cassette, then it’s the wrong one for your topography.

BoH - great point. The Santa Cruz mountains are full of steep climbs and fast downhills. As a result, I have three rings on the front sprocket, with a tiny mountain bike ring as the smallest and an oversize large ring. It has reduced the crossover, so I have to shift both front and back at once more often, but I can grind out really tough climbs easier with my old flabby legs, while I still get to push on the fast downhills.

You ride a triple!

Oh my......

(For the record Beau, the front ones are “chainrings” and the back ones are “cogs”......and as Benno notes, the cogs all together are a “cassette”.)

LOL! I just ride a bike... the names of all the other bits which make it up aren't really my thing.

For a long time, I tried to work out how to ride a "quad" (I guess you'd call it that) so that I could go faster downhill. Then I crashed a few times at high speeds and decided that wasn't a good idea. Better to rest while coasting downhill.

Thanks for the feedback!

Yeah, my road riding days are sooooooo over. We'll stick to gravel trails and don't need (nor can afford) the top flite stuff. I can see the addictive nature of the higher end market though. Some of those Renovo wooden frames are beautiful!

Speaking of gravel, I definitely need to replace the tires on my bike-- I really think, from the look of them, they are the original 40 year old Hutchinsons.

Back when I rode tubulars, the tires were spec'ed out for all the hazards of road riding in College Park to get to campus, in the broken glass capital of the world. I think they were 400+ grams.

Now when I look at all the tire types on the internet, it is a bit bewildering for this Bear of Little Brain. They have specs like 700mm x 23mm....no weight listed? I'll go to the local bike shop and make inquiries. Clearly it's a miracle my tires survived the short 6 mile shakedown cruise Megan and I took on Sunday morning on some rather rough gravel surfaces!

Tim Ford wrote:Thanks for the feedback!

Yeah, my road riding days are sooooooo over. We'll stick to gravel trails and don't need (nor can afford) the top flite stuff. I can see the addictive nature of the higher end market though. Some of those Renovo wooden frames are beautiful!

Speaking of gravel, I definitely need to replace the tires on my bike-- I really think, from the look of them, they are the original 40 year old Hutchinsons.

Back when I rode tubulars, the tires were spec'ed out for all the hazards of road riding in College Park to get to campus, in the broken glass capital of the world. I think they were 400+ grams.

Now when I look at all the tire types on the internet, it is a bit bewildering for this Bear of Little Brain. They have specs like 700mm x 23mm....no weight listed? I'll go to the local bike shop and make inquiries. Clearly it's a miracle my tires survived the short 6 mile shakedown cruise Megan and I took on Sunday morning on some rather rough gravel surfaces!

Ancient Hutches.jpg

Get the widest tire that will fit in the frame and make sure it has some sort of puncture protection. Then run it at the lowest possible pressure, based on someone's internet chart. Tires are a thing where spending a little more will yield instant speed and comfort benefits.

Here's the bike for Tim:

https://www.worksmancycles.com/pav3-3cb.html

Here's the bike I want:

https://www.worksmancycles.com/classic- ... t.html#247

I want to fit it out with the 7-speed Shimano Nexus coaster brake to get me up the local hill, polycarb fenders to keep road mud off of me, front caliper brake and cargo basket for the rear.

Yes, it's heavy. The object is to stop getting into my car every time I need a half gallon of milk or 2 gallons of gasoline for the lawn mower. The bike would be an errand tool, meant to carry light cargo. There's also 2 parks nearby that we like to visit that the bikes would be perfect for.

Ajax wrote:Here's the bike for Tim:

https://www.worksmancycles.com/pav3-3cb.html

I LIKE that! Only: it has a 350 pound limit unless you get the "stretch" model. I've gained a ton of weight since I retired. I'm virulently anti-stretch, have been since the late 60s.

So that's a no-go.

Tim Ford wrote:

Ajax wrote:Here's the bike for Tim:

https://www.worksmancycles.com/pav3-3cb.html

I LIKE that! Only: it has a 350 pound limit unless you get the "stretch" model. I've gained a ton of weight since I retired. I'm virulently anti-stretch, have been since the late 60s.

So that's a no-go.

Horseshit.

I really like that these electric assist bikes have started to catch on and people are starting to see the value of using them to commute.

(Even tho I am somewhat of a cycling purest, I am for anything that gets people out of their cars and onto bikes.)

kimbottles wrote:I really like that these electric assist bikes have started to catch on and people are starting to see the value of using them to commute.

(Even tho I am somewhat of a cycling purest, I am for anything that gets people out of their cars and onto bikes.)

Oh yes, gotta set aside Puritanism on an issue like this.

Tim,
I agree get the widest tires that will fit, if durability is the goal Schwalbe is a good choice. I would leave your old bikes as is, the time and money it would take to change out components will have minimal payoff in the overall usablilty of the bikes and keeping them classic is kind of cool.

Ajax,
You might think of moving up to one of the new gravel bikes. The reduced weight and added gears will be very noticeable on hills, especially if you are carying a load. They still can take wide tires, racks and fenders. It is a step up in cost, but when it come to bikes you do get what you pay for. From a cost standpoint it is a situation of diminishing returns. A $2000 bike is not twice as good as a a $1000 one, but a sub $500 new bike is often so clunky that it will end up never being used. If the budget is limited look at CR, a good quaility previous generation mountian bike with smoothy tires is a good option.

Steele wrote:Tim,
I agree get the widest tires that will fit, if durability is the goal Schwalbe is a good choice. I would leave your old bikes as is, the time and money it would take to change out components will have minimal payoff in the overall usablilty of the bikes and keeping them classic is kind of cool.

Ajax,
You might think of moving up to one of the new gravel bikes. The reduced weight and added gears will be very noticeable on hills, especially if you are carying a load. They still can take wide tires, racks and fenders. It is a step up in cost, but when it come to bikes you do get what you pay for. From a cost standpoint it is a situation of diminishing returns. A $2000 bike is not twice as good as a a $1000 one, but a sub $500 new bike is often so clunky that it will end up never being used. If the budget is limited look at CR, a good quaility previous generation mountian bike with smoothy tires is a good option.

Lots of good bike buys on Craigslist here, hope it is the same there....a used top end bike can be 20-30% of new price! But inspect carefully or take to your favorite bike mechanic for an inspection.

kimbottles wrote:I really like that these electric assist bikes have started to catch on and people are starting to see the value of using them to commute.

(Even tho I am somewhat of a cycling purest, I am for anything that gets people out of their cars and onto bikes.)

My Admiral has one of the electric-assist. Now, she can ride with me and skunk me on the hills. She loves it. I see her waving to me as she disappears uphill. It has changed everything. We couldn't ride together before because she'd get upset that she was holding me back. Now, I'm the one sucking gas.

BeauV wrote:

kimbottles wrote:I really like that these electric assist bikes have started to catch on and people are starting to see the value of using them to commute.

(Even tho I am somewhat of a cycling purest, I am for anything that gets people out of their cars and onto bikes.)

My Admiral has one of the electric-assist. Now, she can ride with me and skunk me on the hills. She loves it. I see her waving to me as she disappears uphill. It has changed everything. We couldn't ride together before because she'd get upset that she was holding me back. Now, I'm the one sucking gas.

Interval training Beau, do interval training to get faster. Motorpacing is also helpful. Tuck in behind her as drafting works at speeds of about 13 MPH and up.

Steele wrote:Tim,
I agree get the widest tires that will fit, if durability is the goal Schwalbe is a good choice. I would leave your old bikes as is, the time and money it would take to change out components will have minimal payoff in the overall usablilty of the bikes and keeping them classic is kind of cool.

Thanks Steele, I'll look into them-there Schwalbes!

kimbottles wrote:

BeauV wrote:

kimbottles wrote:I really like that these electric assist bikes have started to catch on and people are starting to see the value of using them to commute.

(Even tho I am somewhat of a cycling purest, I am for anything that gets people out of their cars and onto bikes.)

My Admiral has one of the electric-assist. Now, she can ride with me and skunk me on the hills. She loves it. I see her waving to me as she disappears uphill. It has changed everything. We couldn't ride together before because she'd get upset that she was holding me back. Now, I'm the one sucking gas.

Interval training Beau, do interval training to get faster. Motorpacing is also helpful. Tuck in behind her as drafting works at speeds of about 13 MPH and up.

I hate wind sprints!! Reminds me of track team and puking. I am more of a grind 'em down sort of guy.

The Admiral is wise to me sucking her wheel and attacks from behind at high speed when I'm not looking! She waits until the hill has slowed me down, then blows by waving No mercy. She quotes me: "I'll see you at the top."

Beau,
Intervals are generally longer than wind sprints. Should be anywhere from 60 seconds to a max of 5 minutes each. Rest in between and try to get your HR below 100 BPM between intervals.
Training to maximize your recovery is very important.
Want me to coach you?

kimbottles wrote:Beau,
Intervals are generally longer than wind sprints. Should be anywhere from 60 seconds to a max of 5 minutes each. Rest in between and try to get your HR below 100 BPM between intervals.
Training to maximize your recovery is very important.
Want me to coach you?

LOL! Sure, but I'm a terrible coachee

When I ride my bike in our neighborhood there is a 2-mile loop with the last 0.33 of a mile being a 125' climb. I use usually ride fast, but not crazy for the other 1.66 miles of each loop and hammer it on the hill. Does that count as an interval? Average speed/lap is about 15 MPH. I'm a wimp. I don't know how time/speed I do on the hill. I'll measure that next time. I typically do about 8-10 miles when I do these laps.

BeauV wrote:

kimbottles wrote:Beau,
Intervals are generally longer than wind sprints. Should be anywhere from 60 seconds to a max of 5 minutes each. Rest in between and try to get your HR below 100 BPM between intervals.
Training to maximize your recovery is very important.
Want me to coach you?

LOL! Sure, but I'm a terrible coachee

When I ride my bike in our neighborhood there is a 2-mile loop with the last 0.33 of a mile being a 125' climb. I use usually ride fast, but not crazy for the other 1.66 miles of each loop and hammer it on the hill. Does that count as an interval? Average speed/lap is about 15 MPH. I'm a wimp. I don't know how time/speed I do on the hill. I'll measure that next time. I typically do about 8-10 miles when I do these laps.

YES!
Hill repeats are my favorite type of intervals. I do them both on a near by neighborhood loop and the Computrainer.

As a casual and infrequent rider, I bought my hybrid on sale at REI about 8 years ago. There is a nice 7 mile loop along South River that does not require me to ride on major roads. I fantasize about riding the country roads nearby. Then I turn on the TV.

I hear you, Joel. Same with me. The level of idiocy I see on the roads these days is beyond belief. No way I'm interacting with that on a mere two-wheeler.