Lawyers

[Tigger]

All to easy to make lawyer jokes.

And then you find yourself in the middle of a very complicated situation, and are exceedingly glad that someone else studied estate law.

2 first cousins, older one (I have PofA for her) is executor of mom's estate. Younger sister, with whom I am friends, never pressed older sister to settle estate. And yes, there is a sizeable estate here. I always figured that the older cousin would pass away, and then the younger would take over and that would be that. Older has mental health issues and is a hoarder. I bet that if I lined 10 of you up, 6 would say that she was no longer able to make sound decisions on her own behalf. However, I also bet that 0 of the same 10 would say that it is bad enough and has reached the point where the state should remove those rights. Meanwhile, older has done nothing in terms of tax returns, bank accounts, etc. Oh, and did I mention that mom died in 1999?

Younger sister drops dead from a heart attack two days ago.

Good thing I retired--lawyer tells me this is karma for retiring early and is now my full time job. lol

Yikes.

R

[LarryHoward]

Ouch

I recently spent a week and Dallas and most of free time organizing my mother's affairs to make things simpler when the time comes. Lots of work but the price we pay for the sacrifices they made for us.

Good luck.

[Orestes Munn]

All to easy to make lawyer jokes.

And then you find yourself in the middle of a very complicated situation, and are exceedingly glad that someone else studied estate law.

2 first cousins, older one (I have PofA for her) is executor of mom's estate. Younger sister, with whom I am friends, never pressed older sister to settle estate. And yes, there is a sizeable estate here. I always figured that the older cousin would pass away, and then the younger would take over and that would be that. Older has mental health issues and is a hoarder. I bet that if I lined 10 of you up, 6 would say that she was no longer able to make sound decisions on her own behalf. However, I also bet that 0 of the same 10 would say that it is bad enough and has reached the point where the state should remove those rights. Meanwhile, older has done nothing in terms of tax returns, bank accounts, etc. Oh, and did I mention that mom died in 1999?

Younger sister drops dead from a heart attack two days ago.

Good thing I retired--lawyer tells me this is karma for retiring early and is now my full time job. lol

Yikes.

R

Sounds pretty sticky, but at least the issue is clear now. We are currently unwinding a large and a small estate. In NY, an executor can't assign POA for those duties. My brother tried to do that when he went to China for 6 mos. Everyone hates lawyers until they they need them.

[SloopJonB]

I think more families get torn apart over estates than by booze, drugs and cheating combined. Certainly my experience has been that there are far more messy situations than smooth transitions. One of the worst things you can do is to put the execution of your estate in the hands of one sibling. If you want to ensure your family stays together after you, get your estate organized (fairly) and put it in the hands of Trust professionals to execute. If you set things up well in advance the cost is not that bad and certainly worth it to your heirs

Lawyers, cops & tow truck drivers - everybody hates them until they need them.

[LarryHoward]

I think more families get torn apart over estates than by booze, drugs and cheating combined. Certainly my experience has been that there are far more messy situations than smooth transitions. One of the worst things you can do is to put the execution of your estate in the hands of one sibling. If you want to ensure your family stays together after you, get your estate organized (fairly) and put it in the hands of Trust professionals to execute. If you set things up well in advance the cost is not that bad and certainly worth it to your heirs

Lawyers, cops & tow truck drivers - everybody hates them until they need them.

Good point and one that many ignore at their peril. In my family, my sister was the designee for years as I was active duty Navy and living all world. 2 years ago, my mom remarried and put her new (84 YO) husband as exec- without telling anyone. He now has terminal cancer and is in hospice care, Mom is fading and I went to Dallas at her request to work out the details. Among other things, my sister is deeply offended that she was replaced and not told. I insisted that Mom and I sit down with her attorney and walk through her wishes very specifically and capture them in a new will. In addition, the lawyer made recommendations for actions now to reduce the "probatable" estate that we (I'm now exec and have a current POA to manage her finances) are putting into place - mostly by assigning specific beneficiaries/beneficiary shares to specific accounts, policies, etc. The only real property she has now are personal items, non heirloom furniture and a low mileage (37,000) 2001 minivan so I'd guess less than 20K in that. Assuming she lives another 6 months, we'll have it set up so that her will will not require probate. I've made it a point to make up a workbook with liabilities and assets and sit down with my siblings (with Mom's agreement) and briefed them on the current "estate" and the planning so it's all an "open book". Only real issue is some investments that will probably not mature before her eventual passing and will have to be either divided or held jointly until they do. I am hoping she lives long enough for that to not be a problem.

Great plan but it takes good advice (legal and financial) and a clear mind for someone to take those steps. Both are lacking in most folks "end of life" planning. With any luck at all, her assets will support all her remaining needs and whatever is left will be simple to distribute according to her clear direction. Hard few weeks getting it into place as her records were not great but I'm getting there and the outcome should be OK.

Us "old farts" need to take note and not do to our children what some of our parents have done to us......

[Tucky]

I've been down this road twice and planning is everything. Communication is also everything, as well as good will, which comes from planning and communication.

I'm glad I only have one child in this regard.

[BeauV]

My maternal grandfather swore he was spending all the money. He always said he'd leave just enough that his wife (his 3rd, and wife of 35 years) would be "...comfortable but not able to run around in some place weird like the south of France with some young guy." We had always thought, given his spending on new Lincoln convertibles, bass boats, and other toys that he was telling the truth.

Then he died. Each grandchild discovered they had a trust fund that was equal to four years of college tuition, to be used for that purpose only until they were 30, they you got the money if it hadn't been spent on education. You also got a letter that said you'd be a damned fool to spend it on toys and to use it for an investment that would pay off. "Make your money go to work for you, so you don't have to." was someplace in that letter. Each child got a check, and that was it, no "stuff". My step-grandmother was "taken care of" just fine and lived her life out in their fishing cabin in Florida which she dearly loved. She donated the "big house" in Tennessee to her church, which my grandfather would have hated, but it was hers to do with as she wished. There weren't any other assets. Papa, as we all called him, had disposed of everything else as he slid from mild chest pain to a fatal heart attack. Sadly, he would have lived many years longer today as the recipient of a bi-pass operation; but this was a long time ago. Fortunately, for everyone he was clear-of-thought and had his values in the right place. "Nothing ruins a good kid like too much money!" was one of his favorite sayings and he convinced all of us that there wasn't any. A very good idea and a blessing to us all (especially his kids). Eventually, my mom and dad died and some of Papa's money (which had been hard at work while they were retired) flowed to my siblings and me. Having been taught a few lessons by Papa, my share ended up invested and did well enough to help me play around with boats n stuff. Silicon Valley helped a lot more. My siblings.... it didn't work out so well.

The point of all this being that I think Larry has it right. It's a curse on our children and grand children if we don't sort this mess out while we can. We're the only ones who knows what we want done with what we've got left, it's our responsibility not theirs. The best thing to leave behind is cash - not "stuff". I'd encourage everyone to start telling their kids that there isn't going to be anything and that you're spending it all - that's what The Admiral and I are doing. It seems to be what Kim and Susan are doing! Each kid knows they will be educated, whatever that takes, and that is it. Each kid believes that there won't be much else left. We're telling them all about schooners, power boats, and S'AGAPO; and keeping S'AGAPO in Europe as a summer toy as a way to completely convince them of this. Each kid has heard Papa's saying: "Nothing ruins a good kid like too much money!" repeatedly. I'm sure not everyone agrees with me, but the words of my orphan grandfather who never had a dollar he didn't make himself ring hard in my ears.

[kimbottles]

When SWMBO's dad came down with cancer he sat SWMBO down (her younger brother lived and worked overseas) and explained everything and set up meetings with his attorney and accountant for her so she would have a complete understanding of what to do and how to deal with the family trust. SWMBO is a highly educated, extremely well read and very intelligent person. She was the perfect choice to deal with her parent's estate.

Then the time came and much to hers and my surprise she could not emotionally deal with it.

Fortunately I am a retired CPA so I just took care of all of it for her. She and her brother were perfect together when I sat them down to split up the physical assets. They each looked out for the other more than they did themselves. Truly a wonderful experience watching them both be so outwardly focused.

Although my parents did not have nearly as much of an estate, my three brothers and I did the same thing with our parent's estate. No drama.

Money is not nearly as important as family and taking care of each other is way more important than trying to grab as much as you can for yourself.

Unfortunately nice endings like ours does not take place in all families. Very sad.

[kimbottles]

It seems to be what Kim and Susan are doing!

Our two sons are well into their 40's and both are successful and have wonderful wives. They have both told me they do not expect to inherit anything. They expect me and their mom to spend it all.

I don't think that will happen, but we will give it a good try.

[Orestes Munn]

I'll take a contrary position having inherited money passed down through two preceding generations. I was brought up knowing that my mom and grandmother had inherited money and that I would too. Along with that knowledge came the repeated message that this was not money to be spent, but to be used to make more money, given away to better the world, or to be passed on to the next generation. I got the message (maybe my brothers not so much) and the only thing I ever spent capital on was a car when I was in grad school. My daughter, who will get everything I inherited, plus what we added, has gotten the message loud and clear and has worked and saved money since she was in middle school. I am very happy that she will be financially secure, but if you talk to her, she will tell you she's concerned about how she will support herself in an academic science career, as she should be.

This, admittedly moderate, wealth has been a responsibility, but not a curse and, in a paradoxical way, taught me how to live relatively modestly and not spend what I didn't earn.

Straightening out any mess and not leaving too much stuff is critical, but one way of making sure of that is bringing the kids into the picture, giving them POA and paperwork on all the accounts, so that they don't have to scramble to get your bills paid and ransack your desk when you start losing your marbles. Been there, done that.