Conoravirus ...

[BeauV]

I have a question. Using Beau's buddy Lance's experience...how can people get the virus and not know it? ...snip....
edit - I just read Jamie's post from "Greg"..that pretty much explained it...I guess it is all about 'viral load'.

I just talked to Lance. He is healing well, now about 3.5 weeks since his first symptoms. He has never been tested, so he doesn't really know what he is "getting over". His wife, a nurse, has said that he had either COVID-19, a bad case of the flu, SARS1, etc.... Her point being that we will never know if Lance had COVID-19 as she was NEVER going to take him to a hospital to find out. To quote her:

"Hospitals are the most dangerous places on Earth right now. In addition to every other well understood disease, there is COVID-19. If you have COVID-19 you have a very good chance of picking up the flu or pneumonia while you're hanging around the place. It is still close to peak flu season. People seem not to understand that you can have all three diseases at the same time. One virus doesn't say: "Oh, this body has been occupied by COVID-19 so I won't go in there.

I hear it all the time: 'I thought I had the flu, now you're telling me I have bacterial pneumonia too!'

Folks need to realize that as soon as you have one disease, you're weakened. Once you catch three at once, you're probably not going to make it."

I've observed the same thing. Folks say: "I had the flu." When they have no freaking idea. They were never tested. The same thing is happening with hundreds and probably thousands of folks like Lance. They have a flu-like disease. It could be the normal flu, it could be COVID-19, it could be one of the other coronaviruses floating around which we call the common cold. Almost no one says: "I had some random flu-like thing, but I wasn't tested, so it could be anything." which is what Lance has said after being tutored by his lovely wife.

[Panope]

I sure have no freaking idea what I caught 5 weeks ago. Still have this weird symptom: A couple times per day I run out of steam and have an uncomfortable "tightness" in my abdomen. Food makes the discomfort go away immediately. Sleep, temperature, bowels - normal.

Its been the same for weeks now.

Never felt anything like it.

Menopause?

Steve

[Ajax]

Sounds like low blood sugar but we have 3 doctors on this forum.

[Olaf Hart]

An interesting new take on COVID

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41423-020-0424-9

Steve , do you have any stomach symptoms apart from the tightness, it’s not unusual to have small duodenal ulcers after a stressful event..

[Olaf Hart]

Here is a more civilised summary of the article

https://www.ausdoc.com.au/news/coronavi ... dy-reveals

[LarryHoward]

Here is a more civilised summary of the article

https://www.ausdoc.com.au/news/coronavi ... dy-reveals

Olaf,

Would love to read it but it’s fire walled and requires application and (advertised) several delay for membership to be approved.

Any chance you could jailbreak it in some way?

[Panope]

........Steve , do you have any stomach symptoms apart from the tightness, it’s not unusual to have small duodenal ulcers after a stressful event..

Stomach feels great as long as there is food in it.

I certainly had a couple weeks of stress in early march. I even had my attorney update my will!

[H B]

Thanks for the additional info, Beau. It is good to hear your friend Lance is improving. Personal stories like that help in some weird way since I assume most of us are fighting a seemingly invisible battle. For the life of me I can't see any good reason why I should not be messing about on my boat, and racing with my friends on Wednesday nights right now...but I am trying to 'trust the brain trust'.

Another thing that helps my stupid little mind is, I have a high school friend that I usually see regularly in a social environment (except not now for weeks!) and she is a nurse in the local hospital. She has simply said to all of us, "please stay home if you can and away from here (the hospital)"...with some expletives that I omitted...we are from the country and all...we use expletives.
In the meantime, I am sneezing my ass off but I think it is seasonal allergies from tree pollen. I am taking 1.5x the normal dose of Zyrtec, which allows me to sleep, although I am still stuffy 24/7. I have an IR temp gun that I use on the boat motor a lot, but more recently using it on myself...89.5° to 92.1°F on the forehead, so I think I am Covid-19 free for now.

[Olaf Hart]

Here is a more civilised summary of the article

https://www.ausdoc.com.au/news/coronavi ... dy-reveals

Olaf,

Would love to read it but it’s fire walled and requires application and (advertised) several delay for membership to be approved.

Any chance you could jailbreak it in some way?

I tried to copy to photos and a PDF file, but this site won’t upload them, says they are invalid.

The gist is that COVID 19, unlike earlier SARS and MARS, has the ability to invade and disable T cells, and so suppress our immune response.

It can’t replicate in these cells, but it seems it can still take them out.

[BeauV]

Here is a more civilised summary of the article

https://www.ausdoc.com.au/news/coronavi ... dy-reveals

Olaf,

Would love to read it but it’s fire walled and requires application and (advertised) several delay for membership to be approved.

Any chance you could jailbreak it in some way?

I tried to copy to photos and a PDF file, but this site won’t upload them, says they are invalid.

The gist is that COVID 19, unlike earlier SARS and MARS, has the ability to invade and disable T cells, and so suppress our immune response.

It can’t replicate in these cells, but it seems it can still take them out.

Ouch!!

[Ajax]

Here is a more civilised summary of the article

https://www.ausdoc.com.au/news/coronavi ... dy-reveals

Olaf,

Would love to read it but it’s fire walled and requires application and (advertised) several delay for membership to be approved.

Any chance you could jailbreak it in some way?

I tried to copy to photos and a PDF file, but this site won’t upload them, says they are invalid.

The gist is that COVID 19, unlike earlier SARS and MARS, has the ability to invade and disable T cells, and so suppress our immune response.

It can’t replicate in these cells, but it seems it can still take them out.

It's interesting that you say COVID can suppress our immune response because it also seems to cause the opposite effect- causing some people's immune response to go into overdrive, killing them quickly.
I've read of several cases where otherwise younger, healthy people with no underlying conditions die in a matter of hours. Nurses have reported being shocked by leaving a patient who appears stable only to return to check on them and find them dead or nearly so.

[Olaf Hart]

Sorry, MARS was a typo, should be MERS.

And a correction, the study did show MERS could invade T lymphocytes as well.

[Jamie]

Cytokine release syndrome. It’s one of the big stumbling blocks that must be overcome for cellular therapies to be successful. The first HER2 patient died of it in 48hrs. There was enough HER2 target in her lungs to incite the t-cells to attack it. It’s one reason why you see certain drugs that suppress the immune system being considered for certain very ill patients.

A number of thing can hijack your immune system - that’s why we use a genetically modified aids virus to reprogram / transduce the t-cells.

I’m just learning a lot about this, so my understanding is not fully formed.

[Olaf Hart]

Don’t fret, every time I think I understand the immune response there is another discovery that makes it more complex..

The good news is it doesn’t replicate, if it did we could have a new version of AIDS...

[LarryHoward]

I’ll let you guys try to understand this beast and explain it to us lesser mortals. Just happy that the shutdown seems to be working and I’m now discussing when and how to start bringing folks back into the office. I like the “A” team, “B” team idea to keep density down while starting to normalize new behaviors.

On the bright side, it took the bank 4 days to process our Paycheck Protection application and get it to SBA. SBA turned it around between Friday afternoon and mid day yesterday. 8 days from submission to deposit. Going to make a huge difference as cash was starting to look pretty lean. I suspect our CFO staged the text he got 10 minutes into the (virtual) Board Meeting so he could announce it.

[Ajax]

I'm pretty stunned that my office isn't considering some sort of shift rotation, especially considering that our customer is on Pacific time. This would benefit them as well... if the customer was actually working.
They have one person come in per day.

[kimbottles]

Quietly he reports that here in Kitsap County we have been holding at 132 cases and one death now for a week. Hunkering down seems to have worked for us. (11 cases on Bainbridge Island.)

(It helps that you have to take a Ferry Boat to get here from King County (Seattle) or drive around through Tacoma which is 100 miles by road.)

[Benno von Humpback]

There's no evidence the effect on the T cells is clinically meaningful.

Cool video from an NIH lab (Ad Bax) showing why you should wear a mask in society

[YouTube]https://youtu.be/qzARpgx8cvE[/YouTube]

[Tim Ford]

OK you nerds, I could've bought ABT at 81 and it closed today at 91.1 Remind me NOT to take your investment advice in the future!

Dang, and I thunk you guys were smaht....

[Olaf Hart]

This is an interesting paper on current immune research on COVID19

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/15/8218

[kdh]

OK you nerds, I could've bought ABT at 81 and it closed today at 91.1 Remind me NOT to take your investment advice in the future!

Dang, and I thunk you guys were smaht....

Geez, we only had about a 50% chance. You win some (half), you lose some. But we're not wrong until you tell us when you would have sold and locked in your gain.

[kimbottles]

Hummm, seeking investment advice from a bunch of sailors?

[Chris Chesley]

Okay, straight from the 'headlines'... (the rest is copy and pasted)

Covid-19 rules in a nutshell . . . Shared from a friend
1. Basically, you can't leave the house for any reason, but if you have to, then you can.
2. Masks are useless, but maybe you have to wear one, it can save you, it is useless, but maybe it is mandatory as well.
3. Stores are closed, except those that are open.
4. You should not go to hospitals unless you have to go there. Same applies to doctors, you should only go there in case of emergency, provided you are not too sick.
5. This virus is deadly but still not too scary, except that sometimes it actually leads to a global disaster.
6. Gloves won't help, but they can still help.
7. Everyone needs to stay HOME, but it's important to GO OUT.
8. There is no shortage of groceries in the supermarket, but there are many things missing when you go there in the evening, but not in the morning. Sometimes.
9. The virus has no effect on children except those it affects.
10. Animals are not affected, but there is still a cat that tested positive in Belgium in February when no one had been tested, plus a few tigers here and there…
11. You will have many symptoms when you are sick, but you can also get sick without symptoms, have symptoms without being sick, or be contagious without having symptoms. Oh, my..
12. In order not to get sick, you have to eat well and exercise, but eat whatever you have on hand and it's better not to go out, well, but no…
13. It's better to get some fresh air, but you get looked at very wrong when you get some fresh air, and most importantly, you don't go to parks or walk. But don’t sit down, except that you can do that now if you are old, but not for too long or if you are pregnant (but not too old).
14. You can't go to retirement homes, but you have to take care of the elderly and bring food and medication.
15. If you are sick, you can't go out, but you can go to the pharmacy.
16. You can get restaurant food delivered to the house, which may have been prepared by people who didn't wear masks or gloves. But you have to have your groceries decontaminated outside for 3 hours. Pizza too?
17. Every disturbing article or disturbing interview starts with " I don't want to trigger panic, but…"
18. You can't see your older mother or grandmother, but you can take a taxi and meet an older taxi driver.
19. You can walk around with a friend but not with your family if they don't live under the same roof.
20. You are safe if you maintain the appropriate social distance, but you can’t go out with friends or strangers at the safe social distance.
21. The virus remains active on different surfaces for two hours, no, four, no, six, no, we didn't say hours, maybe days? But it takes a damp environment. Oh no, not necessarily.
22. The virus stays in the air - well no, or yes, maybe, especially in a closed room, in one hour a sick person can infect ten, so if it falls, all our children were already infected at school before it was closed. But remember, if you stay at the recommended social distance, however in certain circumstances you should maintain a greater distance, which, studies show, the virus can travel further, maybe.
23. We count the number of deaths but we don't know how many people are infected as we have only tested so far those who were "almost dead" to find out if that's what they will die of…
24. We have no treatment, except that there may be one that apparently is not dangerous unless you take too much (which is the case with all medications). Orange man bad.
25. We should stay locked up until the virus disappears, but it will only disappear if we achieve collective immunity, so when it circulates… but we must no longer be locked up for that?

[Ajax]

Yup. Seems clear to me.

[LarryHoward]

Beau,

Send me your email address to Larryhoward77 at gm*** dot com. I responded twice to your PM but both seem stuck in the outbox and aren’t sending.

Larry

[Tim Ford]

Hummm, seeking investment advice from a bunch of sailors?

I know, right?

Chris, thanks for that crystal clear distillation of all that's relevant!

[Jamie]

Well, they got one thing right: there is no treatment for the virus. Yet.

The rest is how you roll the dice on picking up a lethal viral load. Or not.

[Ajax]

This virus will make a person broke!

After 2 months, I turned my wife loose in the local commissary to go food shopping. Yes, I know we were low on some items and she wants to really replinish for the long haul, but the bill made me blanch!

Edit: I established a decon station on the front porch. Shoes changed out, and everything sanitized before it entered the house. Shopping bags collected and disposed of, outside the house. Humans sanitized before entering the house. Vehicle sanitized after being unloaded. The produce was the more difficult part. Most was just rinsed under running water. Some was in mesh bags so we cut them open and brought the produce inside. Oh- the final step was sanitizing our shoes before bringing them inside.

What a hassle.

[Ajax]

Chris, I'd like to add #26:

26. Scientists say don't expect a vaccine anytime soon. It takes a long time to develop a safe and effective vaccine. CNN: Lead scientist says coronavirus vaccine could be ready soon.

[Tim Ford]

I can't watch CNN or Fox or any of the cable channel propaganda organs. Why cable and broadcast networks think it's important to politicize so much of this and sew more division and distrust during this time is beyond my comprehension.

The only thing I can stomach is C-SPAN, which is pretty neutral. Watching an hour on South Dakota's response now. Fascinating! (and very attractive Governor, too)