Conoravirus ...

[Benno von Humpback]

I think the only hope for mask compliance is to put a human face on it, as in, you're protecting individual vulnerable people, directly or via your contacts. Should even work in "Red" areas if people can be made to listen and think for a second.

Eric, I've tried the "protecting individual vulnerable people" and gotten absolutely nowhere. We live in a selfish everyman for himself society, which infuriates me.

How have you heard people justify their rejection of that proposition? It's all a hoax? There's no reply to that.

[BeauV]

I think the only hope for mask compliance is to put a human face on it, as in, you're protecting individual vulnerable people, directly or via your contacts. Should even work in "Red" areas if people can be made to listen and think for a second.

Eric, I've tried the "protecting individual vulnerable people" and gotten absolutely nowhere. We live in a selfish every man for himself society, which infuriates me.

How have you heard people justify their rejection of that proposition? It's all a hoax? There's no reply to that.

Here are the responses:
- It's only dangerous for older people and they can stay home, I'm going to the bar.
- It's no worse than the flu, people should just suck it up.
- This is a plot to take down the President. They couldn't win the election and are now trying to steal the Presidency
- This entire thing is a hoax. The data is wrong, The hospitals are empty. See there isn't any real disease

In large measure, these responses are almost entirely caused by the extremely low incidence of disease in our home town. One person who held the last position changed his mind when one of his fellow sailors damn near died of COVID-19. Now, he claims he never said the things we all heard him say. I haven't had the heart to return his emails to him which proves his hypocrisy.

I suppose this sort of nonsense is inevitable, and it shouldn't make me so angry, but folks in your line of work are risking their lives to save folks. To act like this is just wrong.

[Benno von Humpback]

I think the only hope for mask compliance is to put a human face on it, as in, you're protecting individual vulnerable people, directly or via your contacts. Should even work in "Red" areas if people can be made to listen and think for a second.

Eric, I've tried the "protecting individual vulnerable people" and gotten absolutely nowhere. We live in a selfish every man for himself society, which infuriates me.

How have you heard people justify their rejection of that proposition? It's all a hoax? There's no reply to that.

Here are the responses:
- It's only dangerous for older people and they can stay home, I'm going to the bar.
- It's no worse than the flu, people should just suck it up.
- This is a plot to take down the President. They couldn't win the election and are now trying to steal the Presidency
- This entire thing is a hoax. The data is wrong, The hospitals are empty. See there isn't any real disease
In large measure, these responses are almost entirely caused by the extremely low incidence of disease in our home town. One person who held the last position changed his mind when one of his fellow sailors damn near died of COVID-19. Now, he claims he never said the things we all heard him say. I haven't had the heart to return his emails to him which proves his hypocrisy.

I suppose this sort of nonsense is inevitable, and it shouldn't make me so angry, but folks in your line of work are risking their lives to save folks. To act like this is just wrong.

Very frustrating, but only the last two answers address the proposition. I would force people to go there if I were having the conversation. The low rate makes the mask thing a lot less urgent, however.

[Jamie]

I was talking to the neckbeards that were running the boat rental (my colleague has jointed a boat rental club). They weren't protecting themselves at all and my colleague and I had gloves and mask (pilfered from our lab supplies). He kind of teased us for taking precautions and our joke back was that we use AIDS viruses to try to cure cancer (true in a hand-puppets kind of way), so we don't play with viruses. That got his attention. I told him that if you took no precautions, most of you would be OK, but if you got it bad, the 5% of you who got it bad would be dead or f'd for life. That got him thinking, at least for a little bit. That 5% number is wrong, but seemed a nice proximate short-hand.

I have to watch my manners. A guy dressed in hid best SE Floriduh linen was going to squeeze into the elevator with me and I told him to FO. What I meant to say that he could go first out of precaution, but my mouth ran away with it.

[LarryHoward]

I was talking to the neckbeards that were running the boat rental (my colleague has jointed a boat rental club). They weren't protecting themselves at all and my colleague and I had gloves and mask (pilfered from our lab supplies). He kind of teased us for taking precautions and our joke back was that we use AIDS viruses to try to cure cancer (true in a hand-puppets kind of way), so we don't play with viruses. That got his attention. I told him that if you took no precautions, most of you would be OK, but if you got it bad, the 5% of you who got it bad would be dead or f'd for life. That got him thinking, at least for a little bit. That 5% number is wrong, but seemed a nice proximate short-hand.

I have to watch my manners. A guy dressed in hid best SE Floriduh linen was going to squeeze into the elevator with me and I told him to FO. What I meant to say that he could go first out of precaution, but my mouth ran away with it.

If he had white shoes with the linen, he's probably a transplant from NYC and you know how THOSE PEOPLE can be.

[Benno von Humpback]

By the way, gloves are not a good thing to wear except briefly for specific dirty jobs. They get as dirty as hands and people wearing them don't wash and get careless about touching stuff. They offer no protection unless they are continually changed. Wearing them around in clinical settings is a major no-no.

[Jamie]

By the way, gloves are not a good thing to wear except briefly for specific dirty jobs. They get as dirty as hands and people wearing them don't wash and get careless about touching stuff. They offer no protection unless they are continually changed. Wearing them around in clinical settings is a major no-no.

You have to change them and wash every time you move to a "new" surface?

[H B]

By the way, gloves are not a good thing to wear except briefly for specific dirty jobs. They get as dirty as hands and people wearing them don't wash and get careless about touching stuff. They offer no protection unless they are continually changed. Wearing them around in clinical settings is a major no-no.

I stopped wearing gloves a long time ago after all this started for that reason..it becomes a vector and you also lower your guard.

I just went to a 'drive-by funeral' this past weekend for a fellow sailing friend that contracted Covid-19 in a rehab center for his hip (I think) and it caused heart failure.

[BeauV]

By the way, gloves are not a good thing to wear except briefly for specific dirty jobs. They get as dirty as hands and people wearing them don't wash and get careless about touching stuff. They offer no protection unless they are continually changed. Wearing them around in clinical settings is a major no-no.

I completely agree with Eric here. Folks don't understand what "we who work with epoxy" have learned. After each batch, you have to toss your gloves. I put on a set of gloves each time I leave the car to enter a store and toss them in the trash before re-entering the vehicle. My mental model is that there's wet epoxy on the outside of the gloves and if I touch anything in the car I'll ruin it.

BTW, so far, 100% of customers are masked at our local grocery store. There is a very nice young lady who keeps anyone without a mask (which covers both nose and mouth) from entering the store. There are attendants who will quickly ask customers to adjust their mask if it isn't placed correctly and the wine guy (who is about 6' 4" and 230lbs) will suddenly show up if one of the nice attendants gets any flack. That hasn't happened in weeks. I suppose this is an area where the "we're in this together" approach, which is the vast majority of our town, pays off.

[Olaf Hart]

You could suggest people who don’t want to wear masks, out of respect to others, should just stop breathing...

[Olaf Hart]

We are in a different situation here, our low COVID incidence has the government and public health officials recommending against masks.

There is now a petition amongst health workers asking for that to change.

I suspect one effective strategy to keep an economy going and avoid future closures will be mask wearing in public places, especially indoors.

[BeauV]

You could suggest people who don’t want to wear masks, out of respect to others, should just stop breathing...

It seems ok if they breath "in", they just can't exhale!!

[BeauV]

We are in a different situation here, our low COVID incidence has the government and public health officials recommending against masks.

There is now a petition amongst health workers asking for that to change.

I suspect one effective strategy to keep an economy going and avoid future closures will be mask wearing in public places, especially indoors.

OH,

I don't get it. How was this supposed to work: "low COVID incidence has the government and public health officials recommending against masks."

I'm coming to the conclusion that masks might not be necessary outdoors if folks stay away from each other. A study I saw from some folks riding bikes showed that there was quite the cloud of droplets up to 20' behind a bike going 10 MPH. I believe some of the reasons given was that the bike rider in front was breathing hard and exhaling a lot of droplets. It would be interesting to know how far away one needs to be from someone who is upwind of you in a 10 MPH breeze and breathing normally.

[slap]

I completely agree with Eric here. Folks don't understand what "we who work with epoxy" have learned. After each batch, you have to toss your gloves. I put on a set of gloves each time I leave the car to enter a store and toss them in the trash before re-entering the vehicle. My mental model is that there's wet epoxy on the outside of the gloves and if I touch anything in the car I'll ruin it.

I put my gloves in a bag in the car. They stay there until they are used again a week later.

[BeauV]

I completely agree with Eric here. Folks don't understand what "we who work with epoxy" have learned. After each batch, you have to toss your gloves. I put on a set of gloves each time I leave the car to enter a store and toss them in the trash before re-entering the vehicle. My mental model is that there's wet epoxy on the outside of the gloves and if I touch anything in the car I'll ruin it.

I put my gloves in a bag in the car. They stay there until they are used again a week later.

That works for me, but when I leave the car it's clean. I want it completely clean when I re-enter. So I'd have to keep the bag in my pocket and put the soiled gloves into the bag before touching the car.

BTW - I leave my respirator on the dashboard of the car. Typically, I only use the respirator about once every three or four days. Sitting in the sun on the dash for days makes me feel like the exterior is cleaned by the heat and sunlight.

[Olaf Hart]

We are in a different situation here, our low COVID incidence has the government and public health officials recommending against masks.

There is now a petition amongst health workers asking for that to change.

I suspect one effective strategy to keep an economy going and avoid future closures will be mask wearing in public places, especially indoors.

OH,

I don't get it. How was this supposed to work: "low COVID incidence has the government and public health officials recommending against masks."

I'm coming to the conclusion that masks might not be necessary outdoors if folks stay away from each other. A study I saw from some folks riding bikes showed that there was quite the cloud of droplets up to 20' behind a bike going 10 MPH. I believe some of the reasons given was that the bike rider in front was breathing hard and exhaling a lot of droplets. It would be interesting to know how far away one needs to be from someone who is upwind of you in a 10 MPH breeze and breathing normally.

I don’t get the no masks strategy either, and I am supposed to be a trained public health physician.

The indoors thing is about viral load, the evidence from cluster outbreaks is pointing strongly at crowded people in poorly ventilated spaces, and that high initial viral loads are implicated in the severe forms of this disease.

Must admit, I wore an N95 mask for a while recently when I was fitting underfloor and ceiling insulation In the playhouse, it’s difficult to do real physical work in a mask.

[Olaf Hart]

I should have been more specific with the comment on low incidence, the COVID outbreak down here has always been within the boundaries of effective contact tracing, so it has never been out of control like New York or Italy.

We have roughly one tenth of the population of the USA, and to date have had 105 deaths, and are well on the flat part of the primary incidence curve, so the mask issue isn’t as acute when we have an incidence one thousand times less than yours.

I suspect we would have compulsory masking if we had ten thousand deaths and were still at the top of the curve, but we took advantage of our island state early enough for it to work.

[Benno von Humpback]

By the way, gloves are not a good thing to wear except briefly for specific dirty jobs. They get as dirty as hands and people wearing them don't wash and get careless about touching stuff. They offer no protection unless they are continually changed. Wearing them around in clinical settings is a major no-no.

You have to change them and wash every time you move to a "new" surface?

In the clinical setting, you wash, gown and glove outside the room, go in and do your thing, remove PPE and discard in the room, leave the room, and wash. It's a pain in the ass. We are putting in video links to minimize it.

[Benno von Humpback]

By the way, gloves are not a good thing to wear except briefly for specific dirty jobs. They get as dirty as hands and people wearing them don't wash and get careless about touching stuff. They offer no protection unless they are continually changed. Wearing them around in clinical settings is a major no-no.

I stopped wearing gloves a long time ago after all this started for that reason..it becomes a vector and you also lower your guard.

I just went to a 'drive-by funeral' this past weekend for a fellow sailing friend that contracted Covid-19 in a rehab center for his hip (I think) and it caused heart failure.

Oh, man. Sorry, Shawn.

[BeauV]

Shawn, I'm really sorry to hear about your friend. So far, I have 5 friends who have contracted COVID-19. Most are ok, one isn't doing well. Fingers crossed.


OH, I can't work in a paper N95 mask. It does not allow enough air to flow into your lungs.

I use one of these for sanding, painting, and now shopping . When combined with a P100 filter it filters 99.7% of particles and the "P" rating means it's oil proof. Most importantly, these respirators are MUCH more comfortable than a paper N95 mast. By example, when I'm using hand sanitizer while wearing the respirator, I can't smell the alcohol.

[Benno von Humpback]

I'm coming to the conclusion that masks might not be necessary outdoors if folks stay away from each other. A study I saw from some folks riding bikes showed that there was quite the cloud of droplets up to 20' behind a bike going 10 MPH. I believe some of the reasons given was that the bike rider in front was breathing hard and exhaling a lot of droplets. It would be interesting to know how far away one needs to be from someone who is upwind of you in a 10 MPH breeze and breathing normally.

My club stopped group rides back in March and we are now doing informal time trials with 2-min spacing once a week. I am seeing lots of loose groups out there on weekends, but most of the hardasses and fast people are riding solo. I'm not too worried about passing guys and other incidental exposures on the road and there's no way I'd wear a mask, but I'm staying off the multi-use paths, as usual. They're just too crowded.

[kimbottles]

I'm coming to the conclusion that masks might not be necessary outdoors if folks stay away from each other. A study I saw from some folks riding bikes showed that there was quite the cloud of droplets up to 20' behind a bike going 10 MPH. I believe some of the reasons given was that the bike rider in front was breathing hard and exhaling a lot of droplets. It would be interesting to know how far away one needs to be from someone who is upwind of you in a 10 MPH breeze and breathing normally.

My club stopped group rides back in March and we are now doing informal time trials with 2-min spacing once a week. I am seeing lots of loose groups out there on weekends, but most of the hardasses and fast people are riding solo. I'm not too worried about passing guys and other incidental exposures on the road and there's no way I'd wear a mask, but I'm staying off the multi-use paths, as usual. They're just too crowded.

I am stationary bike riding only. Doctor’s orders.

[H B]

Frank was 83.. but his underlying conditions (Parkinson's and a bad hip) and his age, I am sure contributed, as we are learning. I did many miles of races on his Camper Nicholson 33 IOR boat. He was a good man, and friend. I last saw him in the end Feb early March.

Thanks all..it just helps make us take note that there is probably a few we will know that will fall victim to it...and maybe not necessarily on purpose or from stupidity. All the discussion about protecting the 'elders', as I call them is probably valid. At 48, I can probably survive two weeks in bed with severe flu, but Frank, and my 81 year old step-father Pete, probably cannot, so I am trying not to spread it.

I wasn't really trying to gather sympathy, but just contribute to the discussion. Frank was like me...let's do it as long as we can, but do not mourn for too long and have a big-ass party (in the absence of COVID-19). Myself and other crew members did have many fun years racing and cruising with Frank (and his wife Rita), who was standing at the end of their driveway when we did the drive-by this past weekend...the local yacht club asked for County Sheriff support just to help with traffic control on a rural two-lane road with no shoulder and they happily obliged. I did not do an official count but it was 50-75ish cars..RIP Frank Gerred. https://somd.com/announcements/obits/na ... erred.html

[Benno von Humpback]

I'm coming to the conclusion that masks might not be necessary outdoors if folks stay away from each other. A study I saw from some folks riding bikes showed that there was quite the cloud of droplets up to 20' behind a bike going 10 MPH. I believe some of the reasons given was that the bike rider in front was breathing hard and exhaling a lot of droplets. It would be interesting to know how far away one needs to be from someone who is upwind of you in a 10 MPH breeze and breathing normally.

My club stopped group rides back in March and we are now doing informal time trials with 2-min spacing once a week. I am seeing lots of loose groups out there on weekends, but most of the hardasses and fast people are riding solo. I'm not too worried about passing guys and other incidental exposures on the road and there's no way I'd wear a mask, but I'm staying off the multi-use paths, as usual. They're just too crowded.

I am stationary bike riding only. Doctor’s orders.

Uhh, no kidding. I know a couple of healthy young people whose Strava feeds suggest they are too.

[kimbottles]

I'm coming to the conclusion that masks might not be necessary outdoors if folks stay away from each other. A study I saw from some folks riding bikes showed that there was quite the cloud of droplets up to 20' behind a bike going 10 MPH. I believe some of the reasons given was that the bike rider in front was breathing hard and exhaling a lot of droplets. It would be interesting to know how far away one needs to be from someone who is upwind of you in a 10 MPH breeze and breathing normally.

My club stopped group rides back in March and we are now doing informal time trials with 2-min spacing once a week. I am seeing lots of loose groups out there on weekends, but most of the hardasses and fast people are riding solo. I'm not too worried about passing guys and other incidental exposures on the road and there's no way I'd wear a mask, but I'm staying off the multi-use paths, as usual. They're just too crowded.

I am stationary bike riding only. Doctor’s orders.

Uhh, no kidding. I know a couple of healthy young people whose Strava feeds suggest they are too.

The good news about the stationary bikes is that I have three different ones and despite all I actually like riding them. When I was competitive I used the Computrainer to train because the telemetry was most helpful in adding and tracking fitness, the LeMond Rev Master works great for riding while watching videos and reading, the rollers will really smooth out your pedaling stroke. (Now that I think about it I actually have four stationary systems, there is another one up on a shelve in the garage I haven’t looked at in several years.) All in all I don’t mind riding the stationeries.

[Tim Ford]

Sorry to hear about Mr. Gerred, Shawn.

Sometimes my brain takes a different tack, maybe even a "flyer" but in some ways this might be a bit of a blessing. My father died of PD and it was a very long, painful, slog. Painful for friends and family members I mean...Dad did not suffer from very much physical pain, but losing his dignity and athleticism was crushing for him. He was a D1 scholarship athlete and always played at a high level even if was just touch football in the street. But I digress....

My point is: if it were my choice, I'd rather go relatively quickly than go thru years and years of degenerative illness. In any case, R.I.P. Mr. Gerred.

[Benno von Humpback]

[
Uhh, no kidding. I know a couple of healthy young people whose Strava feeds suggest they are too.

The good news about the stationary bikes is that I have three different ones and despite all I actually like riding them. When I was competitive I used the Computrainer to train because the telemetry was most helpful in adding and tracking fitness, the LeMond Rev Master works great for riding while watching videos and reading, the rollers will really smooth out your pedaling stroke. (Now that I think about it I actually have four stationary systems, there is another one up on a shelve in the garage I haven’t looked at in several years.) All in all I don’t mind riding the stationeries.

We have a KICKR Snap—a wheel-on smart trainer because we switch between his and hers bikes—and subscriptions to Zwift and Rouvy. I pretty much hate it, but it sure beats intervals on a dumb trainer. I don't have a PM on the road bike, so it allows me to follow my power in a relative way and generate data for a regression model to estimate training load from time in HR zones when I'm outdoors.

[kimbottles]

[
Uhh, no kidding. I know a couple of healthy young people whose Strava feeds suggest they are too.

The good news about the stationary bikes is that I have three different ones and despite all I actually like riding them. When I was competitive I used the Computrainer to train because the telemetry was most helpful in adding and tracking fitness, the LeMond Rev Master works great for riding while watching videos and reading, the rollers will really smooth out your pedaling stroke. (Now that I think about it I actually have four stationary systems, there is another one up on a shelve in the garage I haven’t looked at in several years.) All in all I don’t mind riding the stationeries.

We have a KICKR Snap—a wheel-on smart trainer because we switch between his and hers bikes—and subscriptions to Zwift and Rouvy. I pretty much hate it, but it sure beats intervals on a dumb trainer. I don't have a PM on the road bike, so it allows me to follow my power in a relative way and generate data for a regression model to estimate training load from time in HR zones when I'm outdoors.

I love intervals, hill repeats and motorpacing. But that love is directly related to how much fitness I got from each back during my serious competitive years. It all carries over to now when I do them because I love that feeling of fitness they provide. (Must be the endorphins.)

[Benno von Humpback]

[
Uhh, no kidding. I know a couple of healthy young people whose Strava feeds suggest they are too.

The good news about the stationary bikes is that I have three different ones and despite all I actually like riding them. When I was competitive I used the Computrainer to train because the telemetry was most helpful in adding and tracking fitness, the LeMond Rev Master works great for riding while watching videos and reading, the rollers will really smooth out your pedaling stroke. (Now that I think about it I actually have four stationary systems, there is another one up on a shelve in the garage I haven’t looked at in several years.) All in all I don’t mind riding the stationeries.

We have a KICKR Snap—a wheel-on smart trainer because we switch between his and hers bikes—and subscriptions to Zwift and Rouvy. I pretty much hate it, but it sure beats intervals on a dumb trainer. I don't have a PM on the road bike, so it allows me to follow my power in a relative way and generate data for a regression model to estimate training load from time in HR zones when I'm outdoors.

I love intervals, hill repeats and motorpacing. But that love is directly related to how much fitness I got from each back during my serious competitive years. It all carries over to now when I do them because I love that feeling of fitness they provide. (Must be the endorphins.)

I'm treating clinical-level anxiety with exercise and unless it hurts, I'm not happy. I need a weekly TSS of ≥ 500 to feel good and I tend to split that over one > 3hr ride on the weekend and a bunch of interval workouts during the week. I have a lot of trouble periodizing like I should.

[kimbottles]

[
Uhh, no kidding. I know a couple of healthy young people whose Strava feeds suggest they are too.

The good news about the stationary bikes is that I have three different ones and despite all I actually like riding them. When I was competitive I used the Computrainer to train because the telemetry was most helpful in adding and tracking fitness, the LeMond Rev Master works great for riding while watching videos and reading, the rollers will really smooth out your pedaling stroke. (Now that I think about it I actually have four stationary systems, there is another one up on a shelve in the garage I haven’t looked at in several years.) All in all I don’t mind riding the stationeries.

We have a KICKR Snap—a wheel-on smart trainer because we switch between his and hers bikes—and subscriptions to Zwift and Rouvy. I pretty much hate it, but it sure beats intervals on a dumb trainer. I don't have a PM on the road bike, so it allows me to follow my power in a relative way and generate data for a regression model to estimate training load from time in HR zones when I'm outdoors.

I love intervals, hill repeats and motorpacing. But that love is directly related to how much fitness I got from each back during my serious competitive years. It all carries over to now when I do them because I love that feeling of fitness they provide. (Must be the endorphins.)

I'm treating clinical-level anxiety with exercise and unless it hurts, I'm not happy. I need a weekly TSS of ≥ 500 to feel good and I tend to split that over one > 3hr ride on the weekend and a bunch of interval workouts during the week. I have a lot of trouble periodizing like I should.

Every bike ride should hurt, otherwise what’s the point? That’s why hills are your friend. (Too bad we live so far apart Eric, we could have been bike buddies.)