Personal Energy Independence

[Orestes Munn]

It is sickening to see that stuff and simply overwhelming to think about in the global aggregate. We will figure it out or live with it in increasing squalor and danger.

[kdh]

It is sickening to see that stuff and simply overwhelming to think about in the global aggregate. We will figure it out or live with it in increasing squalor and danger.

Not drinking water out of plastic seems to me a lay-up, and using paper instead of plastic for containers. For take-out, some restaurants in our area are switching over.

I think we get a false feel-good by recycling plastic, as it seems best not to introduce it into the environment in the first place.

[TheOffice]

KDH,

No doubt you are correct! The movement to ban plastic straws has taken hold. While it is a good thing, I'm not sure I understand why straws are worse than other plastics.

I greatly reduced energy and water consumption on the boat by replacing the broken fresh water foot pump. Plus, if there is ever a leak in a line I won't empty the tanks.

Joel

[kdh]

I meant those fucking plastic water bottles. Why are we bottling tap water?

[Orestes Munn]

I meant those fucking plastic water bottles. Why are we bottling tap water?

Talk about unpriced externalities!

[BeauV]

Meanwhile, at work we dispose of ungodly amounts of plastic in the form of take-out containers used for lunch.

We've had quite the change around here, with respect to single-use plastics.
- No more straws, period, unless they're paper.
- No more plastic bags, unless they are washable and reusable multiple times. We take our own vegetable bags to the grocery store
- No plastic utensils, cups, and plates
- Water is filtered into containers, not bought (I haven't quite killed off the Hint Water, but I'm trying.)
- Explicit requests to vendors to ship in paper/cardboard not bubble pack (which many have complied with.)
I've been astounded at the reduction in the quantity in our "recycle" bin. We're at about 1/2 of what we were at two years ago.

Meanwhile, a friend's boat sucked up a plastic vegetable bag on their way back from Catalina and overheated their engine. I'll need a new head.

[kdh]

Meanwhile, at work we dispose of ungodly amounts of plastic in the form of take-out containers used for lunch.

We've had quite the change around here, with respect to single-use plastics.
- No more straws, period, unless they're paper.
- No more plastic bags, unless they are washable and reusable multiple times. We take our own vegetable bags to the grocery store
- No plastic utensils, cups, and plates
- Water is filtered into containers, not bought (I haven't quite killed off the Hint Water, but I'm trying.)
- Explicit requests to vendors to ship in paper/cardboard not bubble pack (which many have complied with.)
I've been astounded at the reduction in the quantity in our "recycle" bin. We're at about 1/2 of what we were at two years ago.

Meanwhile, a friend's boat sucked up a plastic vegetable bag on their way back from Catalina and overheated their engine. I'll need a new head.

We've done all that at home too, though we don't bother filtering our well water--it's great as is.

[SemiSalt]

I meant those fucking plastic water bottles. Why are we bottling tap water?

And trucking it around?

[Ajax]

Meanwhile, at work we dispose of ungodly amounts of plastic in the form of take-out containers used for lunch.

I'm too damn cheap for take out. I eat leftovers and cold cuts and use pyrex containers.

[BeauV]

I meant those fucking plastic water bottles. Why are we bottling tap water?

And trucking it around?

The entire idea of sending water to California from France or Italy is just absurd!

[JoeP]

We are reducing our plastic use quite a bit at home. We don't buy bottled water unless absolutely necessary and even then I feel guilty about it. We bought some metal water bottles which keep water with ice cold for 24 hours +/-. I have one at work and one at home. since I now work in the land that restaurants and food trucks forgot I now bring my lunch in an insulated bag. +1 for the Pyrex containers. At home we recycle everything that has a recycling symbol on it. Hard to believe that some companies still use non recyclable plastics in their packaging though. Even yard waste is recycled in a separate bin and we add any spoiled vegetable based products to it.

[kdh]

Meanwhile, at work we dispose of ungodly amounts of plastic in the form of take-out containers used for lunch.

I'm too damn cheap for take out. I eat leftovers and cold cuts and use pyrex containers.

We buy lunch for everybody. Some of the places we use send the food in waxed paper boxes, which are perfectly adequate.

[Ajax]

This is still a limited sample of data (less than half of July) but I thought it was interesting.

We set the A/C to "Eco" during the day, which is a band from 57F to 85F degrees. At 6pm, the thermostat lowers to 80F degrees. At 9pm, the thermostat lowers to 76F degrees so that we can sleep comfortably. I'm finding this to be a bit cool and might raise it to 78F. The house never actually gets to 85F during the day, it's more like 79F to 81F which is not uncomfortable for us during the daytime. We mainly turn the A/C down to 76F at bedtime to dehumidify the house so that we don't stick to each other while we sleep.

Out of 14 days measured, 8 of those days were heavily overcast and rainy. We've had record rainfall and darkness this month and the weather pattern is very atypical. We still managed to achieve an 88% offset during greatly reduced solar exposure while still running the A/C and all the other energy intensive chores such as cooking, laundry and dish washing at our normal rate. We didn't alter our behavior with regard to these jobs. We didn't install the Nest thermostat or the low-flow toilet until about mid-way through the sample period.

August will be the first full month of records and it's still going to be hot so the A/C will still be running. I hope we have a more normal mix of sun and clouds instead of these apocalyptic deluges.

[Orestes Munn]

That's pretty austere, but I guess you're the iron patrol boat man of the Gulf ports.. Is your woman on board with those temps? Mine would put a lock box on the thermostat if I tried anything like that. We sleep at 74 with a fan and let things float to the high 70s during the day.

[Ajax]

Sure, she's good with it. Hell, she's usually outside in the garden, sweating her arse off anyway. Coming inside to a dry, 80F degrees feels pretty good in comparison.
I froze my ass off last winter so I'm really enjoying the heat and sweating... during the day at least, not while sleeping.

[Panope]

$26k.

Ajax, as a rabid DIY'er, I'm always curious about the cost for materials only. Any guess at the labor/materials breakdown?

Steve

[Ajax]

$26k.

Ajax, as a rabid DIY'er, I'm always curious about the cost for materials only. Any guess at the labor/materials breakdown?

Steve

Labor? Not a clue what Tesla pays these guys vs. what they charge me.
Materials: 28, 300w panels, mounting pucks, interconnecting hardware, a short run of ordinary exterior electrical conduit, a static inverter rated for at least 8.5Kw, various electrical wiring and bits to connect to my breaker panel.

Renogy is selling 300w, 24v panels for $306 each so that's $8600.
A 3 phase, 9Kw inverter looks to run around $2500, so $11100 just for the main components, not including all the aforementioned minor hardware.
Assume that Tesla gets some kind of bulk discounts for everything that the average DIY'er won't get.

There was a considerable amount of administration involved with county permits, inspections, applications with the local utility and then inspections by them as well. I know I paid Tesla money to process a large amount of paperwork. I also paid engineers to accurately survey my property for solar exposure and to design the system. It involved more than just looking at Google Maps and saying "A-yup, we'll put panels right about here."

Through my own personal research, I had correctly calculated the size array that I would need all on my own, but I wasn't entirely certain that I was correct. I wasn't totally positive what my solar exposure was. Sure, I considered doing it myself but I felt that the costs were so large that I didn't want to "guess" so I hired experts.

[Orestes Munn]

Mine was 21K for 5.27 kW: 17 premium panels (Winaico) and a SolarEdge inverter/controller system plus design, permitting, and a day’s labor for a three man crew. No breakdown given. Nothing about this except maybe the mains connection looked at all beyond Steve’s skills.

[BeauV]

On a related topic. We are doing the DIY route on putting out 240v line from the power pole underground to get rid of a pole in the middle of the back yard.

So far we've done all the "work" and enjoyed the privilege of paying PR&E (our local utility) $12,000 for the "engineering" which is exactly zero. This does cover them doing four inspections and actually pulling wire through the conduit and hooking it up. As Eric said, the only think I've seen in any of this that's remotely difficult is the actual hook up and re-hook. We're doing 100% of the Comcast cable TV coax and just not telling them we did it.

All that said, I completely agree with Ajax that before making the size investment he made I'd hire experts. I'm guessing the total cost of DIY + Expert consultants would be about the same as what he's paying Tesla, but I could be way off.

[JoeP]

So is the installation rated for high winds? How does your insurance cover them? I ask because if I install panels they will need to be on frames that mount to a flat portion of my roof.

[Orestes Munn]

So is the installation rated for high winds? How does your insurance cover them? I ask because if I install panels they will need to be on frames that mount to a flat portion of my roof.

Good question about the angle frame on a flat roof. I don't think the panels would do real well if the wind got behind them.

[floating dutchman]

Beau, are you going to put glass on that conduit?
Fibre to the door is becoming the norm in NZ, I got it installed for nothing just because we seem to be in a changeover phase, copper is fading out.

Jeroen.

[Orestes Munn]

Hey, Rob. Someone just asked me about end of life disposal costs for PV gear. I have no answer and I bet we are not paying them. You’re welcome

[BeauV]

Beau, are you going to put glass on that conduit?
Fibre to the door is becoming the norm in NZ, I got it installed for nothing just because we seem to be in a changeover phase, copper is fading out.

Jeroen.

We haven't pulled Fibre because we're too far out in the country to get service via fibre. The nearest fibre is about 1.5 miles away. I actually looked into how much it would cost to bring it to my area, sort of a public service donation . But it's crazy. Far better to set up a high speed microwave tower in the backyard as I can get line-of-sight to downtown Santa Cruz from about 90' up. But.... my neighbors don't like the idea of me putting up a 90' mast... grrrr.

Also, as of now we've only got the wife and me in the house. So, there aren't massive peaks as our kids download 5 movies at the same time before a trip.

[BeauV]

Hey, Rob. Someone just asked me about end of life disposal costs for PV gear. I have no answer and I bet we are not paying them. You’re welcome

Guys, I wouldn't worry about it. We don't price in the total life disposal cost of any other form of energy either. Just look at what it takes to clean up gas stations, coal mines, etc..... If we actually priced in the full cost of energy - to return everything to as it was before creating and using the energy - I don't think we'd have anything like the energy rich economy we have now. We would also have a massive amount less food. Compared to the coal mines, cleaning up solar panels will be a cake walk.

[Orestes Munn]

Well, we’re stacking the federal judiciary with people who don’t believe in the concept of common goods, so those cleanup costs are going down.

[BeauV]

Well, we’re stacking the federal judiciary with people who don’t believe in the concept of common goods, so those cleanup costs are going down.

I think you really meant to say: "clean up is going down". For those who actually clean up, the costs will probably continue to rise. Sadly, many polluters won't be required to deal with the down stream costs of their operations.

[Olaf Hart]

Some good news

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-08/h ... l/10082514

[Ajax]

Ah, in a billing period where I only had solar for part of the time, my consumption was only 200kwh (vs. My usual 1200-1400) and my bill was only $13. $8 of that is a mandatory "connection fee" that I will always pay no matter how much power I produce or consume.

I did receive $20 in credits for consuming less on BGE's "peak reward days. "

[TheOffice]

That's amazing!