Things better improve

[BeauV]

It just dawned on me when reading Kim's post that we now have three cars that we drive (the Morgan is a garage queen and the Mini is on its way to be sold). All three of those are built in the US and two of them were built in California.

I never would have predicted this 10 years ago and would have lost a lot of money making a bet on the topic.

[Chris Chesley]

Larry, I'll put my two cents into the mix. Just bought my 2nd Toyota Highlander Hybrid (Platinum this time). totally love it. 28 mpg around town and on the hwy ! Tows 3500#. Not a pickup but a very comfortable errand vehicle. My 2013 never had a problem over 5 years and still on the first set of brakes and pads (comfortably, at 90k miles). The 2018 is a notable upgrade in comfort. Nothing sporty. Not gonna blow you away with cornering but, suits me just fine. By far it's the best vehicle I've ever owned.

[Olaf Hart]

If there is grandfathering in your future, extra seats are a real bonus...

[LarryHoward]

Larry, I'll put my two cents into the mix. Just bought my 2nd Toyota Highlander Hybrid (Platinum this time). totally love it. 28 mpg around town and on the hwy ! Tows 3500#. Not a pickup but a very comfortable errand vehicle. My 2013 never had a problem over 5 years and still on the first set of brakes and pads (comfortably, at 90k miles). The 2018 is a notable upgrade in comfort. Nothing sporty. Not gonna blow you away with cornering but, suits me just fine. By far it's the best vehicle I've ever owned.

Chris,

The Highlander (Toyota's badge brother to the RX) is certainly an option to consider.

[Tim Ford]

Oh baby....

eldo wagon.png

[Jamie]

Oh baby....

eldo wagon.png

Yeah....I want one of those. I'd even take a Buick Roadmaster

[Chris Chesley]

Chris,

The Highlander (Toyota's badge brother to the RX) is certainly an option to consider.

I considered the RX (for the Admiral donchaknow) but it has less interior cargo volume and I deliberately try not to live 'badge' conscious, so am happier flying a touch lower under the radar with a 'generic' Toyota instead of the Luxury version. (that said, at over $50k, I'm probably just kidding myself mostly...)

[BeauV]

I used to crew on a Fireball for a guy named Gordon Danielson, who was famous as the "Dentist for the Grateful Dead". He was actually a dentist.

He towed the fireball with a monstrous Caddy. I think it was about a '69 - it looked a lot like the attached. He had the FIRST mobile phone in a car I'd ever seen. You used the radio to call a mobile phone operator, gave them the number, and they patched you in. You had to say "over" when you stopped talking

We slept in the car at regattas, Gordon in the front seat because he was smaller and the wheel got in the way a little (amazing that anyone was smaller than me), and me in the back. I could stretch out and my feet and head wouldn't hit the arm rests. It was MUCH more comfortable than many racing sailboats I've slept it.

[Charlie]

THAT is a “boat”

[LarryHoward]

Chris,

The Highlander (Toyota's badge brother to the RX) is certainly an option to consider.

I considered the RX (for the Admiral donchaknow) but it has less interior cargo volume and I deliberately try not to live 'badge' conscious, so am happier flying a touch lower under the radar with a 'generic' Toyota instead of the Luxury version. (that said, at over $50k, I'm probably just kidding myself mostly...)

This is my second RX. First was a 300 and predated the Highlander. It was liked by a large (34” diameter) white Oak during Hurricane Irene. The current one is its replacement. I looked at a number of options then but really didn’t come up with anything better. Highlander with the options I wanted approached the Lexus cost and I was a bit put off by the boxy appearance of the Highlander of that generation. Now the Lexus has grown a face only its mother can love.

As I mentioned above, I keep a car for an average of 10 years so reliability over the long term is important. I’ve been a bit underwhelmed by Lynne’s 2006 Sienna. It’s been decidedly average as is my local Toyota dealer.

I’ll head out Saturday to drive some of the options. The long term maintenance costs of the European cars is a worry and the newfound quality of the Fords hasn’t been proven over the long term.

I had started thinking about the “next car” but was thinking in about 18 months. We are having the first snow event of the season in the region so it’s not a good time to try to make a deal on anything AWD.

[Ajax]

Oh baby....

eldo wagon.png

Weak sauce.

I had one of these babies- An International Harvester Travelall, 1010. Exactly like this, white with the faux paneling. It had two fuel tanks for a combined total of 47 gallons. You had to take out a payday loan to afford to fuel it up. It had an IH 345 V8 (Not to be confused with the Jeep 345) with a Holley 4bbl and dual exhaust from the factory. They borrowed a 3 speed Torqueflite transmission from Chrysler, IIRC. The rear area was big enough to hold a friggin' barn dance.

[kimbottles]

If you want to be high style may I suggest This:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1953- ... 2018-11-15

[Slick470]

my first car was this

1967-1968-amc-ambassador-10.jpg

had the 343 V8 and an auto trans. Used it to haul our old Mac22 to and from the lake and up and down the launch ramp. It was my grandmothers. She bought it new in 67. Dad finally got rid of it when it blew a head gasket and a new gasket set for a rebuild cost more than the rebuild. I hope someone rescued it. It was ugly, but still a really cool car.

[Ajax]

Slick- NICE. Better than a Pacer.

[kdh]

This was my first car. All kinds of room in it when out on "dates." A 4' x 8' sheet of plywood would fit in the back, which was required to transport the drum platform for my rock band.

It was actually my mom's, but my dad gave it to my brother when we graduated college, but it literally caught on fire in a toll booth on the Mass Pike driving home from graduation and was never seen again.

[Anomaly]

If you want to be high style may I suggest This:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1953- ... 2018-11-15

Hmmm, maybe this is "low style"... My high school shop project. 1953 Chevy 150 Handyman wagon. Spent most of its life in the arid part of WA state. About 15 years ago I drove it across country. Still drive it, but now mostly in the summer on nice days. 235 straight 6. I have a spare motor and just dropped the head off at an old-time auto parts shop that still has a machine shop in the back. The guy is retiring at the end of this year so I figured I'd have him do a valve job on the spare head and I'll get around to checking on whether a ring job is needed as a winter project.

53_Handyman.jpg

[Panope]

OK, now that this thread has drifted to ancient "boat like" cars that catch on fire, I can contribute!

1960 Olds Super Eighty Eight. Found it in a field full of cancer (rust).

Four new tires and a new battery got the thing home. However, just as I rounded the last corner, smoke started pouring in the cabin. It must have been quite a sight - me springing out of my new car to grab a garden hose to douse an interior fire.

Turned out that the rotten (non-existent) floor pans allowed my feet to push the carpet down onto the exhaust.

Sheet metal flashing and pop rivets fixed the floors and several gallons of Hammerite paint (brushed-on) solidified much of the external rust. It actually looked pretty good from 25 feet.



Dog was my beloved, ever present companion, PITOT (pronounced pee-toe). Smarter that most people, I reckon.

He loved to stand on the back seat (with hind legs) and drape himself over the front seat for a perfect view. Hard rights would plaster him against my shoulder but hard lefts would send him flying!

[Ajax]

Yayssssssssss... The Super 88 was a monster. Like the Vista Cruiser wagon.

I get it- pitot, like pitot tubes. We had them everywhere on the submarines I was one.

[LarryHoward]

OK. Back to the topic at hand.

Thoughts on the Ford Explorer? 2017 with 20,000 miles available locally in Platinum trim so all of the extras and options. Ticks all of the "desired equipment" and a 5,000 lb tow rating. I tend to agree that the German cars risk high to extreme lifetime maintenance and repair costs. I still remember my 1994 Explorer which was a total POS. This thing is a big as I'd want to drive daily so the "more truck" Expedition is not something I'd consider and I just can't get over the "ugly mouth" of the newer Lexus offerings.

So, should I risk the Ford?

[TheOffice]

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/fo ... 7/overview

Average reliability, 4 out of 5 in owner satisfaction

[Slick470]

We have a 2007 Explorer with a 4.0 V6. It was babied for the first 60k or so and we now have it up to around 103k. I'd like to get another 50k or so out of it if not more. Mostly minor stuff since we've owned it, but a few frustrations with the local Ford dealership and their willingness to troubleshoot an older model. Biggest issue was the transmission which there was a well known and documented issue for that series. From when it started acting up to when we finally had it rebuilt was about 3-years, and it probably could have gone a lot longer before a full failure, but I didn't want to get stranded on a long road trip this past summer.

Looked at the newer ones before pulling the trigger on the trans rebuild and almost went with a 2015 with 20k on it. They generally get good reviews and I have two co-workers who have had/have them who have been happy so far. I bought the 2007 from one of them and was hoping he'd sell me his newer one, but it ended up going to his nephew.

Big plus for us is the space for hauling the family, plus the 3rd row for when the grandparents are in town or we need to haul more kids around. Ours gets lousy gas mileage around town, but is ok on the highway. Newer ones are a bit better.

[Ajax]

They're STILL a POS.

Shop Japanese.

[BeauV]

OK. Back to the topic at hand.

Thoughts on the Ford Explorer? 2017 with 20,000 miles available locally in Platinum trim so all of the extras and options. Ticks all of the "desired equipment" and a 5,000 lb tow rating. I tend to agree that the German cars risk high to extreme lifetime maintenance and repair costs. I still remember my 1994 Explorer which was a total POS. This thing is a big as I'd want to drive daily so the "more truck" Expedition is not something I'd consider and I just can't get over the "ugly mouth" of the newer Lexus offerings.

So, should I risk the Ford?

Larry, we looked at a 2017 and decided against it. The 2018 is a complete redesign with newer electronics, different transmission (the multi-speed ZF that almost everyone uses now), alloy body, etc.... Supposedly the trans problems in the older ZF are fixed, we have no idea. This one is working fine, but most of the duty has been running up and down Highway 5 at average speeds of 85 to 90. It gets 19 MPG at 85 MPH.

I completely understand Ajax's comment, and would have agreed with him on every US SUV except by 1976 Suburban (which was basically a truck with a station wagon body) and this new one. So far (23,000 miles) it has been perfect. My friends with Toyota pickup trucks have stopped buying them for their company and gone back to Ford due to slightly better reliability from the Toyota but about 2X the repair costs when they do break down. The Germans don't build anything that compares to the interior space. (I wouldn't own a Expedition in Europe either.)

[JoeP]

Speaking of Toyota trucks, this guy deserves a medal and free beer for life:

https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article221591940.html

[LarryHoward]

Beau,
Thanks. Explorer is unibody and Expedition is body on frame (150 frame if my source is correct) so 2 different animals. The Explorer redesign is slated for late 2019 as a 2020 introduction so the 2017 is from 2011-2019 "5th generation".

[BeauV]

Speaking of Toyota trucks, this guy deserves a medal and free beer for life:

https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article221591940.html

It is very hard to describe how bad the Camp fire was. So many people trapped with literally no way to get out. So many amazing stories of firefighters and others like this guy show amazing bravery in the face of it all.

The latest numbers on those who are still missing keep growing, it's over 300 now. There has been a lot of chatter about why this happened, but I think this is most rational explanation:

"Yet those elegant towering Gray pines, cottonwoods, and walnut trees that drew people to Paradise also posed an immense risk of catching on fire. Six years of drought, including the driest period in California history, collided with bark beetle infestations that started spreading in rapidly in 2010, killing off scores the state’s iconic giants.

There are now more than 129 million dead trees in California sprinkled through forests like the one in Paradise, ready to burn like matchsticks. And with more people living closer to this dry timber, the likelihood that someone, or something, will spark a fire has grown steadily higher."

It hard to image what it will take to remove the 129 million dead trees caused by draught and bugs. Many of them are in areas that are almost inaccessible to anyone but a crew with ropes who can rappel down the steep slopes. Many of them are on private land where the landowner can't possibly afford to remove them. (just cutting them down makes the fire hazard worse) Many of the less rational owners don't want anyone cutting their trees and keep claiming they will recover. It's a very sad situation which is made a lot worse by the foothills of the Sierras and other mountains becoming a relatively inexpensive area for folks to retire to. The trailer parks of older folks went up like matchsticks.

[BeauV]

Beau,
Thanks. Explorer is unibody and Expedition is body on frame (150 frame if my source is correct) so 2 different animals. The Explorer redesign is slated for late 2019 as a 2020 introduction so the 2017 is from 2011-2019 "5th generation".

Opps - sorry, my mistake - I miss-read Explorer as Expedition.

[Jamie]

Beau,
Thanks. Explorer is unibody and Expedition is body on frame (150 frame if my source is correct) so 2 different animals. The Explorer redesign is slated for late 2019 as a 2020 introduction so the 2017 is from 2011-2019 "5th generation".

Yeah, the Expedition is an F150 with dependent rear suspension. Flex and Explorer are the same thing packaged differently. The EcoTech is a Mazda design.

I try to own cars like you do - which would push me towards naturally aspirated Japanese cars.

[LarryHoward]

Thanks all. Will be headed up to NORVA or Annapolis tomorrow to do some more shopping. This specific Exporer was a rental for 8 months (and 17K miles) and went to a VA dealer at auction. It gained 1,500 miles while there ("dealer use car or used for something for 750 miles/month unless the CARFAX is wrong) and was auctioned again 2 months later to the local dealer here who has had it since April with just 100 miles added. Have to wonder what's up with that but they are eager to get an offer and its currently priced around private party with an open "make me any reasonable offer and it's yours".

Jaime. Problem with the Japanese cars is the mix of standard features. I really liked the Lexus RX for the rain sensing wipers, auto dimming mirrors, quality leather and heated seats and overall quality. Not so impressed with transmissions, general low tech and slow adoption (no Apple play in the Toyotas yet). I'd grab another RX, probably the 2016 or 2017 RX-400H hybrid, and think about replacing the head unit to get Apple Play if the mouth wasn't so ugly. Nissans seem to exibit some quality issues. DOn;t know about the Infiniti.

Really wondering if a 19K mmile Explorer for about $35K (Lot of depreciation from a new list price 18 months ago of $53K) Trumps a $45-50K RX with 30-40K miles that still doesn;t have a couple of my desired options. On the Honda Pilot, I'd have to spring for the Touring to get the features I'm looking for adn those are pushing $50K (new) as well. Subies will get a drive tomorrow but fall into the "few of the features I'd like" category, I'm not sure about CVT and the Ascent is too new to have a track record. Wife and I both want some acceleration and will trade gas mileage for it and the NA 2.5i qualifies as "adequate".

[Jamie]

Jaime. Problem with the Japanese cars is the mix of standard features. I really liked the Lexus RX for the rain sensing wipers, auto dimming mirrors, quality leather and heated seats and overall quality. Not so impressed with transmissions, general low tech and slow adoption (no Apple play in the Toyotas yet). I'd grab another RX, probably the 2016 or 2017 RX-400H hybrid, and think about replacing the head unit to get Apple Play if the mouth wasn't so ugly. Nissans seem to exibit some quality issues. DOn;t know about the Infiniti.

Really wondering if a 19K mmile Explorer for about $35K (Lot of depreciation from a new list price 18 months ago of $53K) Trumps a $45-50K RX with 30-40K miles that still doesn;t have a couple of my desired options. On the Honda Pilot, I'd have to spring for the Touring to get the features I'm looking for adn those are pushing $50K (new) as well. Subies will get a drive tomorrow but fall into the "few of the features I'd like" category, I'm not sure about CVT and the Ascent is too new to have a track record. Wife and I both want some acceleration and will trade gas mileage for it and the NA 2.5i qualifies as "adequate".

I hear you on the Japanese cars...and the styling.

I too, wonder about the CVT, and the new 2.4L. Subaru had a lot of trouble with the 2.0 DI turbo when it first came out due to a too aggressive tune - think broken pistons due to detonation. The early CVTs are all getting extended warranties due to suspect life-span. That said 3.6 H6 in the Outback is a good engine with a good track record.

The reduced depreciation on the RX vs the Ford can buy a lot of head units.