Moderator: Soñadora
His feet were so swollen that they wouldn’t fit in his shoes.
Orestes Munn wrote:His feet were so swollen that they wouldn’t fit in his shoes.
Pro tip: Never let anyone like that on your boat.
Tucky wrote:As someone who knows the captain distantly, and knows a number of people that know him well, I'll offer a few things. I don't know any facts other than what I've read. I'm sympathetic to the captain not because I know him, but because I'm of the opinion that he can't be fairly judged after the fact for what took place. I think the position he is in is a position that any of us who goes offshore could be in, that of having our actions judged by people that weren't there, and having a "duty of care" imposed after the fact. The prosecutor is offering that he can be blamed for not having a radio other than VHF and not having a satellite phone, neither of which are legal requirements. I know a number of people that have crossed oceans, even recently, without working long range communications. He did not trigger his EPIRB, but I know several incidents where an EPIRB was not triggered after a man overboard drowning because it would have triggered a massive response with no possibility of success, and there was no suggestion afterwards of culpability. This was not a Jones act paid crew situation but rather someone delivering his private boat south who picked up last minute crew at the dock as many have done. I've never taken casual crew offshore, but have been part of last minute crew situations, and know a number of people that have taken last minute pickup crew south from Maine in the fall- it is quite common. Stupid sometimes, but not legally prohibited.
I guess there is enough libertarian in me to believe that the person that had a duty of care was the crew to himself, and I'm not willing to judge the severity of the threat the Captain felt for himself and his other crew after being attacked when he chose to let the person that jumped over face the consequence of his own behavior. Sailing the ocean in small private boats is one of the last places where we choose our equipment and our companions and are responsible for ourselves. I'm very uncomfortable with the after the fact legal prosecution being offered in this case, and don't think that the existence of government offers to try and rescue imposes requirements that we call for them.
Orestes Munn wrote:Tucky wrote:As someone who knows the captain distantly, and knows a number of people that know him well, I'll offer a few things. I don't know any facts other than what I've read. I'm sympathetic to the captain not because I know him, but because I'm of the opinion that he can't be fairly judged after the fact for what took place. I think the position he is in is a position that any of us who goes offshore could be in, that of having our actions judged by people that weren't there, and having a "duty of care" imposed after the fact. The prosecutor is offering that he can be blamed for not having a radio other than VHF and not having a satellite phone, neither of which are legal requirements. I know a number of people that have crossed oceans, even recently, without working long range communications. He did not trigger his EPIRB, but I know several incidents where an EPIRB was not triggered after a man overboard drowning because it would have triggered a massive response with no possibility of success, and there was no suggestion afterwards of culpability. This was not a Jones act paid crew situation but rather someone delivering his private boat south who picked up last minute crew at the dock as many have done. I've never taken casual crew offshore, but have been part of last minute crew situations, and know a number of people that have taken last minute pickup crew south from Maine in the fall- it is quite common. Stupid sometimes, but not legally prohibited.
I guess there is enough libertarian in me to believe that the person that had a duty of care was the crew to himself, and I'm not willing to judge the severity of the threat the Captain felt for himself and his other crew after being attacked when he chose to let the person that jumped over face the consequence of his own behavior. Sailing the ocean in small private boats is one of the last places where we choose our equipment and our companions and are responsible for ourselves. I'm very uncomfortable with the after the fact legal prosecution being offered in this case, and don't think that the existence of government offers to try and rescue imposes requirements that we call for them.
One doesn’t have to be much of a libertarian to agree, but I guess we all now know to trigger the EPIRB if that happens. I don’t know anything about maritime law, but on land it’s hard to imagine a jury convicting the capt. The fact there was no mention of a civil suit also speaks to the issue of culpability.
BeauV wrote:
I believe I read somewhere that the civil suit was filed and dismissed by the court.
Tim Ford wrote:OM, is there some sort of clinical significance to having swollen feet? Is there some connection to a potential mental health issues?
After a few days at sea I notice some difficulty getting my damn boots on...
Tim Ford wrote:I know. Just hoping Capt DW doesn't see any of this.
Tim Ford wrote:Larry, that makes a good case for going 6 up instead of just 5....avoids the possibility of a tie vote if someone goes by the board.
Tim Ford wrote:OM, is there some sort of clinical significance to having swollen feet? Is there some connection to a potential mental health issues?
LarryHoward wrote:Tim Ford wrote:I know. Just hoping Capt DW doesn't see any of this.
Aren’t you allowed to take a vote on turning back when someone goes over? I know I stayed clipped in since I wasn’t sure how that might go.
Orestes Munn wrote:LarryHoward wrote:Tim Ford wrote:I know. Just hoping Capt DW doesn't see any of this.
Aren’t you allowed to take a vote on turning back when someone goes over? I know I stayed clipped in since I wasn’t sure how that might go.
Isn’t it a DSQ is you finish with crew missing?
LarryHoward wrote:Orestes Munn wrote:LarryHoward wrote:Tim Ford wrote:I know. Just hoping Capt DW doesn't see any of this.
Aren’t you allowed to take a vote on turning back when someone goes over? I know I stayed clipped in since I wasn’t sure how that might go.
Isn’t it a DSQ is you finish with crew missing?
Sometime, it might be worth it.
Audrey wrote:The prosecutor might think that the victim was forced overboard. And hoping to rattle some cages with the capt or crew by bringing charges. All of it is strange to say the least. I can understand the reluctance to go back and save a man who was trying to kill you seconds earlier. But that boat should've turned around on day 2 and headed for port. Crazy doesn't have a place on a boat.
Audrey wrote:Did you guys read the "meanwhile over in Denmark" story of the rich guy who built a submarine? That was disturbing.
Over on SA http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/186581-meanwhile-over-in-denmark/