Cyber Security Stuff

If it ain't about boats, it should go here.

Moderator: Soñadora

Cyber Security Stuff

Postby BeauV » Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:32 am

All,

I just got the following from my VPN vendor, NordVPN. I hadn't realized that over half a billion passwords and user names had been left in-the-clear by a Facebook partner (and Facebook). If you aren't in the habit of changing your passwords often and using different passwords for each site, you're running a pretty big risk.

Another Facebook security failure: millions of records leaked

540 million data records of Facebook users were compromised after third-party apps and sites stored the data on unsecured servers.

The leaked information included comments, likes, reactions, account names, and FB IDs, and some email addresses. The app called At The Pool even stored passwords of 22,000 users in plaintext.

Security expert tips: If you have used At The Pool, make sure you are not reusing the same password for any other accounts. All other Facebook users, beware of phishing attacks based on your account activity.
____________________
Beau - can be found at Four One Five - Two Six Nine - Four Five Eight Nine
User avatar
BeauV
 
Posts: 14660
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:40 am
Location: Santa Cruz or out sailing

Re: Cyber Security Stuff

Postby TheOffice » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:05 pm

Lovely!
“If a man must be obsessed by something,” E.B. White once wrote, “I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most.”

Joel
Hylas 44
Atlantis
TheOffice
 
Posts: 3132
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:33 pm
Location: Annapolis MD

Re: Cyber Security Stuff

Postby avramd » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:12 pm

Beau,

There were only 20k passwords stored in the clear, and it was only if you used the app "At The Pool". The other info leaked was nowhere near that sensitive.

Avram

BeauV wrote:All,

I just got the following from my VPN vendor, NordVPN. I hadn't realized that over half a billion passwords and user names had been left in-the-clear by a Facebook partner (and Facebook). If you aren't in the habit of changing your passwords often and using different passwords for each site, you're running a pretty big risk.

Another Facebook security failure: millions of records leaked

540 million data records of Facebook users were compromised after third-party apps and sites stored the data on unsecured servers.

The leaked information included comments, likes, reactions, account names, and FB IDs, and some email addresses. The app called At The Pool even stored passwords of 22,000 users in plaintext.

Security expert tips: If you have used At The Pool, make sure you are not reusing the same password for any other accounts. All other Facebook users, beware of phishing attacks based on your account activity.
User avatar
avramd
 
Posts: 597
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:44 am

Re: Cyber Security Stuff

Postby BeauV » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:15 pm

avramd wrote:Beau,

There were only 20k passwords stored in the clear, and it was only if you used the app "At The Pool". The other info leaked was nowhere near that sensitive.

Avram

BeauV wrote:All,

I just got the following from my VPN vendor, NordVPN. I hadn't realized that over half a billion passwords and user names had been left in-the-clear by a Facebook partner (and Facebook). If you aren't in the habit of changing your passwords often and using different passwords for each site, you're running a pretty big risk.

Another Facebook security failure: millions of records leaked

540 million data records of Facebook users were compromised after third-party apps and sites stored the data on unsecured servers.

The leaked information included comments, likes, reactions, account names, and FB IDs, and some email addresses. The app called At The Pool even stored passwords of 22,000 users in plaintext.

Security expert tips: If you have used At The Pool, make sure you are not reusing the same password for any other accounts. All other Facebook users, beware of phishing attacks based on your account activity.


Thanks for that. I took the NordVPN folks at their word. My bad.
____________________
Beau - can be found at Four One Five - Two Six Nine - Four Five Eight Nine
User avatar
BeauV
 
Posts: 14660
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:40 am
Location: Santa Cruz or out sailing

Re: Cyber Security Stuff

Postby Chris Chesley » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:17 pm

Beau, do you advocate for a password 'wallet' type thing like One Password or Last Pass?

You can get very encrypted passwords that are all different. Remembering them all is the challenge. Having iCloud or your browser remember them seems barely secure----or only as secure as your laptop.

I've systematized my password 'rules' so I can almost always kinda 'know' what it is. But this doesn't help when they need to be changed regularly or when my 'system' doesn't quite follow the rules of a website regarding symbols, or a max or min. number of entries.

Thoughts?
User avatar
Chris Chesley
 
Posts: 733
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:40 pm
Location: Salishistan

Re: Cyber Security Stuff

Postby Benno von Humpback » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:30 pm

Chris Chesley wrote:Beau, do you advocate for a password 'wallet' type thing like One Password or Last Pass?

You can get very encrypted passwords that are all different. Remembering them all is the challenge. Having iCloud or your browser remember them seems barely secure----or only as secure as your laptop.

I've systematized my password 'rules' so I can almost always kinda 'know' what it is. But this doesn't help when they need to be changed regularly or when my 'system' doesn't quite follow the rules of a website regarding symbols, or a max or min. number of entries.

Thoughts?

Is there any workable alternative? Half the sites I visit won’t even let a browser fill in the user name.
User avatar
Benno von Humpback
 
Posts: 1174
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:35 pm

Re: Cyber Security Stuff

Postby Rob McAlpine » Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:16 pm

Benno von Humpback wrote:Is there any workable alternative? Half the sites I visit won’t even let a browser fill in the user name.


I've heard those tentacle porn websites have to be very careful. Not that I would have any first hand knowledge, but I've heard. :?
Sometimes I sit and think. Other times I just sit.

They talk about my drinking, but never my thirst.
User avatar
Rob McAlpine
 
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:43 am
Location: Texas, New Mexico, New England

Re: Cyber Security Stuff

Postby BeauV » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:35 am

Chris Chesley wrote:Beau, do you advocate for a password 'wallet' type thing like One Password or Last Pass?

You can get very encrypted passwords that are all different. Remembering them all is the challenge. Having iCloud or your browser remember them seems barely secure----or only as secure as your laptop.

I've systematized my password 'rules' so I can almost always kinda 'know' what it is. But this doesn't help when they need to be changed regularly or when my 'system' doesn't quite follow the rules of a website regarding symbols, or a max or min. number of entries.

Thoughts?


Chris, this is longer than you many have wanted. The answer to your quesiton is in the first two paragraphs, the rest is just more thoughts on the topic.

What I strongly recommend is a two-factor system. My opinion is that any site worth beans will require that one not only have the laptop but also a phone/pager/second computer that is required to get in. Obviously, I this doesn't happen for lots of sites. I've decided that I can live with that for what I keep on the computer, which is very little.

For the initial password, I actually cut and paste my passwords into a file that is then encrypted on my hard disk by me. The passwords are long. It is further encrypted by Apple as a part of its standard security system. If you aren't using an encrypted file system, I'd strongly recommend it. I don't use one of the standard packages for the reason you've all probably thought of: If someone hacks them they have everything. I just don't want to take the risk. The cut-n-paste process leaves things in the OS memory, so I do the obvious, which is to cut-n-paste something else after I've logged in using this technique.

Whenever I walk away from my laptop, I close the lid. To get back in again one has to enter the biometric data or password. When I dealt with really secure stuff, even logging in require two factors. My iPhone is always in my pocket or in my hand (it's a habit), not ever on a tabletop or ever in a briefcase. The trick is to never ever lose both of the two-factor devices at once.

Finally, I really strongly believe in diversifying risk. For our funds, they are in multiple places. It's easy to get to a bank account with a small amount of money in it. It takes a personal phone call to someone I know and who recognizes me to get to any large amount of money. It's really hard to fool a friend. There is no electronic way for me to move funds out fo the places that hold a significant amount. I have to call or visit physically. Obviously, this is a pain in the ass, but it is really hard to crack for a bad guy. Frankly, it is so old-school that I doubt many hackers believe it still exists. The bank didn't believe it when I set it up, I had to explain it to their President (who is a friend). He was incredulous many years ago but understands now. We have multiple places like this. We could have a bank take a hit and still be fine, which is the real goal here.

There is no 100% secure system. But given someone needs to have either my fingerprint or face recognition to work to get my portable devices open, and my fingerprint to open my laptop, it's reasonably ok as a first layer. Once in, they can't do anything but look at a few pictures of boats and kids, and read some Board Documents if they can figure out the password. I'm not worried about that stuff.

There appear to be two major holes in security systems online.

The first and most common one is that someone gets phished. They get something that looks as if it's from a place like Apple: "You're Credit Card has failed to go through, please log in here with your iCloud user name and password so you can re-enter..." blah blah blah. We've all seen them. But they remain the most effective way to get someone's credentials. Please don't ever EVERY answer one of these emails. If you think that Apple (or anyone else) is asking you by email for this information, call them on the phone at a phone number you look up for yourself and are reasonably certain it's really their web site. Tell them about the email and that you'd like to address the issue. They will almost always tell you that email was not from them. A variant of this is exactly how the Russians hacked both the Democratic and Republican party HQ.

The second is that folks will use the same login name and password on multiple sites so they can remember it easily. Once again, it's diversification of risk. You want them all to be unique. Of course, there are some sites, like the ones Rob just mentioned, where you'll be using BigGuyWithMoney as your login name and IGotTheGirl22 as the password. :) - But, I think all of us here know better than that for sites that matter.

If you address these two attacks, you'll cover the vast majority of amateur or lightweight attacks. Sadly, most folks don't bother.

Then there is the issue of an intercept. You really should run a VPN whenever doing things that matter. Seriously, please run a VPN. If you won't, please use your telephone as a hotspot while visiting important sites, as it is a lot harder to work an intercept on a cell phone call, especially if the car is moving. :) In many foreign countries, you should simply assume that even cell phone lines are all being intercepted. Everything that is not encrypted is being taken. They probably are in the US too, but we don't have a government corrupt enough (yet) to steal from folks in this way. Whenever you're online banking or anything you really value, your VPN should be on NordVPN is a good product and only takes seconds to turn on and off. It will slow your internet speed, but there is no free lunch.

If you're interested, we can get into using Signal rather than txt or Apple Messenger etc.... Please don't use any of the software vendor messaging services - like Facebook. The problem is not the company stealing your data/info it is an employee or the crumby security at the company. I can go on and on.... ask if you're interested.
____________________
Beau - can be found at Four One Five - Two Six Nine - Four Five Eight Nine
User avatar
BeauV
 
Posts: 14660
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:40 am
Location: Santa Cruz or out sailing

Re: Cyber Security Stuff

Postby BeauV » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:43 am

One fun fact. I read an article that said that using full sentences as passwords was actually harder to crack than the generated uber-complex passwords we see. So, get an old book and start using the sentences in it. Just to be safe, skip around in the book.

I found it amazing that "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief" is better than "}cZ,kGLGT{C-_RXHv3[FDSy_hC$}U&E{,?%LV7#N" So, if you want a password that you can remember, choose a passage from a book (your your wedding vows) and use that.
____________________
Beau - can be found at Four One Five - Two Six Nine - Four Five Eight Nine
User avatar
BeauV
 
Posts: 14660
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:40 am
Location: Santa Cruz or out sailing

Re: Cyber Security Stuff

Postby Jamie » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:28 am

BeauV wrote:One fun fact. I read an article that said that using full sentences as passwords was actually harder to crack than the generated uber-complex passwords we see. So, get an old book and start using the sentences in it. Just to be safe, skip around in the book.

I found it amazing that "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief" is better than "}cZ,kGLGT{C-_RXHv3[FDSy_hC$}U&E{,?%LV7#N" So, if you want a password that you can remember, choose a passage from a book (your your wedding vows) and use that.


Edward Snowden in his interview with John Oliver has some good password advice. :D
Jamie
 
Posts: 4140
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:34 am

Re: Cyber Security Stuff

Postby BeauV » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:00 am

Jamie wrote:
BeauV wrote:One fun fact. I read an article that said that using full sentences as passwords was actually harder to crack than the generated uber-complex passwords we see. So, get an old book and start using the sentences in it. Just to be safe, skip around in the book.

I found it amazing that "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief" is better than "}cZ,kGLGT{C-_RXHv3[FDSy_hC$}U&E{,?%LV7#N" So, if you want a password that you can remember, choose a passage from a book (your your wedding vows) and use that.


Edward Snowden in his interview with John Oliver has some good password advice. :D


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Btw - if anyone wants a password, there is a place that will give you a free really good one on the internet. :shock: :shock: You just want to be sure that you use someone else's computer and/or have your VPN running because you may have just provided them with your computer's address and they can try that password on all sorts of things.
____________________
Beau - can be found at Four One Five - Two Six Nine - Four Five Eight Nine
User avatar
BeauV
 
Posts: 14660
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:40 am
Location: Santa Cruz or out sailing

Re: Cyber Security Stuff

Postby SemiSalt » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:59 pm

I think it's just dandy (NOT!) when I enter userid and pw for a site and get told they've texted a pin to my cell phone which is at the opposite end of house and not turned on. Very efficient.

There are two interesting videos on Computerphile:
https://youtu.be/7U-RbOKanYs
https://youtu.be/3NjQ9b3pgIg

They are a couple of years old now, but probably things have not changed a lot. The jist (as best I recall) on breaking a pw is that breaking a random string of numbers and characters is feasible up to about 8 characters. Trying to break a pw that you assume is made up of words (perhaps with some variation such as erratic capitalization) is feasible for more characters, but is dependent on the size of the dictionary used. The way to beat this sort of attack is described in this XKCD:
https://xkcd.com/936/

My idea is to choose 4 or 5 short words. You want to the words to be fairly obscure (i.e. not in a typical 30,000 word dictionary) and have each word come from a different facet of your life, say a boating word, a medical word, a computer word, etc. Foreign language words are good. The combination should be easy to remember and therefore easy to type. I'm sure that Beau would agree that pw theft is not the biggest threat.

I worked for the last several years before retirement over a VPN. This was a company VPN, not a commerical one. I was able to do programming, etc with no trouble.
And malt does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man. - A.E. Houseman - A Shropshire lad
User avatar
SemiSalt
 
Posts: 2344
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:58 pm

Re: Cyber Security Stuff

Postby floating dutchman » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:25 am

So, in light of this thread I just have a wee question for Rick.

The password I use on this site, It's safe aye. No need for me to worry and change a whole host of other passwords aye.

Thanks in advance. Jeroen.
Good wine still isn't beer.
User avatar
floating dutchman
 
Posts: 581
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:17 am
Location: Nelson New Zealand

Re: Cyber Security Stuff

Postby avramd » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:39 pm

SemiSalt wrote:The way to beat this sort of attack is described in this XKCD:
https://xkcd.com/936/

My idea is to choose 4 or 5 short words. You want to the words to be fairly obscure (i.e. not in a typical 30,000 word dictionary) and have each word come from a different facet of your life...


I just wanted to comment here that 1) by going to your life for word inspiration, you are undermining the essence of the kxcd point and 2) by requiring them to be obscure, you're making it harder for you.

What I do is use an internet-based random word generator, and ask for 4 or 5 words. When I get one that intrigues me, I copy it, and then I keep going. This typically takes less than a minute. The intrigue is the key, that makes it easy to remember, but it's still random - and a computer isn't going to be able to predict what will intrigue me. As with the xkcd comic, I don't bother with symbols, caps, etc, b/c they make it harder to remember. If you really want more entropy, increase your word count.

I admit I don't bother to enable my vpn or use incognito mode, I should probably do that.
User avatar
avramd
 
Posts: 597
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:44 am

Re: Cyber Security Stuff

Postby SemiSalt » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:23 am

avramd wrote:
SemiSalt wrote:The way to beat this sort of attack is described in this XKCD:
https://xkcd.com/936/

My idea is to choose 4 or 5 short words. You want to the words to be fairly obscure (i.e. not in a typical 30,000 word dictionary) and have each word come from a different facet of your life...


I just wanted to comment here that 1) by going to your life for word inspiration, you are undermining the essence of the kxcd point and 2) by requiring them to be obscure, you're making it harder for you.



I take your point, though I think it applies to an attack on you personally and not to the "a million email addresses stolen" situation. Any way, by "obscure" I mean familiar to you but not to everyone. For example, "sinh" (math), "daemon" (computers/mythology), and "paten" (religion).

The XKCD's real observation is than length is as good as complexity. I think you can use any familiar phrase if it's long enough, i.e. "whatsoproudlywehailed", especially with eccentric capitalization or spacing. Or maybe an em dash. If your name is Benno von Humback, you can probably use that.
And malt does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man. - A.E. Houseman - A Shropshire lad
User avatar
SemiSalt
 
Posts: 2344
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:58 pm

Re: Cyber Security Stuff

Postby Chris Chesley » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:18 pm

The problem I have with sentences or a series of short words is that many sites have restrictions on passowords. i.e. Must be 8-12 characters, must include capitals and lower case, must include a symbol or a number. Once I have to deviate from my password 'system', I will have difficulty remembering these add'l rules. Hence, my system results in unique passwords, that also stay within most limitations/requirements. ymmv
User avatar
Chris Chesley
 
Posts: 733
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:40 pm
Location: Salishistan

Re: Cyber Security Stuff

Postby Jamie » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:34 am

Programs like 1Password concentrates the risk should there be a breach or you expose that password, but it lets you use better passwords overall and change them more frequently.
Jamie
 
Posts: 4140
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:34 am

Re: Cyber Security Stuff

Postby BeauV » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:15 pm

This isn’t exactly on-point, but a guy built a simple $200 safe cracking robot. Its performance is amazing.

Check it out HERE
____________________
Beau - can be found at Four One Five - Two Six Nine - Four Five Eight Nine
User avatar
BeauV
 
Posts: 14660
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:40 am
Location: Santa Cruz or out sailing


Return to Off Topic

cron